tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5588150109003847843.post1759960022792881414..comments2023-09-18T04:45:52.991-07:00Comments on Ask the Scientologist: Scientologists: Can You Remove The "Cult" From Scientology?Just Billhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/00700571144527474381noreply@blogger.comBlogger20125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5588150109003847843.post-39976769105602559632014-06-29T19:13:50.851-07:002014-06-29T19:13:50.851-07:00Good luck to you!Good luck to you!Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13832941886963373775noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5588150109003847843.post-43043973886688638882012-11-18T08:23:44.331-08:002012-11-18T08:23:44.331-08:00Hi. I hope I can help as well.
Just so you know,...Hi. I hope I can help as well.<br /><br />Just so you know, I have two ways for people to ask me questions. Over on the left panel, there is "<b>Ask a Question - Make a Suggestion</b>" which always has a link to my most recent <a href="http://askthescientologist.blogspot.com/2012/10/ask-question.html" rel="nofollow">Ask a Question</a> thread. For asking me questions privately, there is "<b>Other Sections</b>" in the left panel which contains a link to <a href="http://askthescientologist.blogspot.com/p/contact-me.html" rel="nofollow">Contact me</a>.<br /><br />But here is also perfectly fine.<br /><br />I can't say whether the people at the wedding were Scientologists but I can guess that most were involved in a cult. When you say "The words came after great thought and pause, and it was impossible to enter into conversation beyond our introductions" that nails it exactly.<br /><br />The <i>reason</i> the words come after a delay is because the cult member has to translate between cult thoughts and words into "real world" words and concepts -- and it is difficult for them. They have been conditioned to think only in cult concepts and words and that these concepts are "superior" and "unique" with no real world analogues.<br /><br />You ask what seems to you to be a simple question and they have to translate that into cult-speak. Then they process what you asked in cult-concepts and formulate a response. <i>Then</i> they have to filter it all very carefully to translate all the cult words back into English -- and to ensure they don't disclose any cult secrets. That is why it takes so long to respond to simple questions.<br /><br />They can't help it, it is part of the cult indoctrination. It is part of the cult isolation. The cult members must reject contact with "outsiders" to keep their environment "pure". It's just a cult thing. I can assure you that they were feeling quite uncomfortable around you.<br /><br />I hope this gives you some insight as to what happened, but feel free to ask follow-up questions or <i>any</i> questions. I'm always glad to help if I can.<br /><br />BillJust Billhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00700571144527474381noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5588150109003847843.post-12152531110089316072012-11-18T03:31:40.823-08:002012-11-18T03:31:40.823-08:00Just Bill, thank you for your insightful blogs. I ...Just Bill, thank you for your insightful blogs. I have stumbled upon this site while trying to research the social behaviors of scientologists around non-scientologists and I am amazed at how few google hits on the subject there are. I apologise for this being off subject, I cannot find a link to ask you a question so perhaps you could begin a new thread to help me. I attended a wedding on the weekend with my husband. The groom was a former workmate of my husband's. We encountered unusual behaviour from all the guests at the wedding apart from the groom, his parents and other workmates of my husband. I find it hard to explain other than to say that we felt ostracized and, weirdly, purposely made to feel self-conscious. The words came after great thought and pause, and it was impossible to enter into conversation beyond our introductions. It occurred to us that this was exactly like the feeling we got when we dined in a Scientology-run business in another state of Australia. I am interested to know what social behaviours are common amongst Scientologists when they are with non-Scientologists, and if there are specific guidelines they follow? <br />Thank you, I hope you can help.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5588150109003847843.post-43544219968291937992010-11-16T09:00:05.949-08:002010-11-16T09:00:05.949-08:00@Roz Cohn
Thank you!@Roz Cohn<br /><br />Thank you!Just Billhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00700571144527474381noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5588150109003847843.post-39208312061869935022010-11-15T22:48:25.567-08:002010-11-15T22:48:25.567-08:00Bill, you are by far the best blogger I've rea...Bill, you are by far the best blogger I've read. Absolutely spot on and you nail hubbard the con and his successor perfectly. Scientology is a trap and thank you for exposing it in such a sane and intelligent way. I love you for what you have done for myself and others.Roz Cohnnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5588150109003847843.post-54107023759678429212010-11-08T11:30:07.261-08:002010-11-08T11:30:07.261-08:00@ Strelnikov
You said "It was a cult the min...@ Strelnikov<br /><br />You said "It was a cult the minute Hubbard declared Scientology to be a religion."<br /><br />I think it goes back further than that. It was in DMSMH when Hubbard declared War against the Reactive Mind, and then went on to recruit soldiers. The battle became "Homo Novis" against Homo Sapien. You can't get the War out of Dianetics OR Scientology any way you put it.<br /><br />Thanks Just Bill for another great article. I'm catching up on a lot of what I haven't read here. Great stuff and spot on.John Peelernoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5588150109003847843.post-34563213606062248702010-11-05T12:46:38.245-07:002010-11-05T12:46:38.245-07:00I certainly could agree that some Scientologists&#...I certainly could agree that <i>some</i> Scientologists' devotion to Scientology could be pathologic but, as an absolute statement of fact, it's a bit ridiculous. One would have to have done extensive medical tests on a decent-sized, representative group of Scientologists and compared that to a control group of other believers and non-believers.<br /><br />And no one has <i>ever</i> done that.<br /><br />You expressed an opinion as if it were fact and I merely wanted to point out it was an unproven opinion.<br /><br />Given that I <i>was</i> and Scientologist, and have known thousands of Scientologists, I have a completely different idea of how and why people get entrapped in that belief system, which I have elaborated on quite a number of times here. Pathology does not play, in my <i>personal</i> opinion, a significant role.<br /><br />We can disagree on this point.Just Billhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00700571144527474381noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5588150109003847843.post-21218890925010282442010-11-05T10:57:56.149-07:002010-11-05T10:57:56.149-07:00Well, gravity is a fact. Period. I think sometimes...Well, gravity is a fact. Period. I think sometimes we shy away from absolute statements too much in an effort to differentiate ourselves from the bullies. <br /><br />My statement was not made to bully others, but was my conclusion based in experience of Scientologists over 45 years of observation and interaction, some of it very intimate and some of it on broad levels. Just Bill, can you really come up with the case of a person who while devoted to Scientology was in his or her "right mind"? <br /><br />Pathology has terrible connotations, I know, but its basic meaning is just 'sickness or dysfunction.' Perhaps it sounds hyperbolic as I used it.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5588150109003847843.post-85728584957895524622010-11-01T14:05:18.597-07:002010-11-01T14:05:18.597-07:00Re: "Devotion to Scientology is pathology. Pe...Re: "Devotion to Scientology is pathology. Period."<br /><br />That's a theory. While you may be right about <i>some</i> people, it bothers me when someone states a vague, unproven theory as if it were proven fact. Inevitably they end it with "... Period".<br /><br />I had enough of that kind of hyperbole from Scientology.Just Billhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00700571144527474381noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5588150109003847843.post-20832019179491301802010-11-01T13:18:06.569-07:002010-11-01T13:18:06.569-07:00Some people WANT to worship a fraud and if they ca...Some people WANT to worship a fraud and if they can't worship one they will run around until they find another. Attribute this to the plain fact that they refuse to look at their childhoods and see when and where they first decided NOT to be themselves, but to be someone acceptable to one or the other parent or both.<br />Devotion to Scientology is pathology. Period.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5588150109003847843.post-56565830258479460952010-10-31T12:02:54.466-07:002010-10-31T12:02:54.466-07:00There's none so blind as those who will not se...There's none so blind as those who will not see. I've noticed the same thing about "The Independent Scene", they are turning into a cult and they can't see it. Every single cult characteristics was developed by Hubbard, and since they continue to worship the fat fraud, nothing will ever change. <br /><br />This post nails it once again, Just Bill at his finest. It should be a real eye-opener for lurking members, but when I read posts from people outside the control of the cult (like Vertley) and their "enormous confront" I have me doubts...but you should still keep'em coming, Bill, they're really inforamtive for everyone, especially non-Scientologists like me.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5588150109003847843.post-64477770217281627392010-10-31T12:01:45.094-07:002010-10-31T12:01:45.094-07:00Bill, my commendations to you. Your insight and r...Bill, my commendations to you. Your insight and reasoning are so sound it's almost hard to believe you were once a Scientologist.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5588150109003847843.post-15785638676479114032010-10-31T08:56:43.883-07:002010-10-31T08:56:43.883-07:00@Vertley
Let me expand a bit more on my previous ...@Vertley<br /><br />Let me expand a bit more on my previous response. I get <i>very</i> annoyed by this "It's <i>all</i> and <i>only</i> David Miscavige" justification and bogus "Why" that so many Scientologists assert.<br /><br />To put it bluntly, it's a position of total <i>no-responsibility</i>.<br /><br />"He did it all! We had <i>nothing</i> to do with it!"<br /><br />Technically, that's correct -- Scientologists did <i>nothing</i>.<br /><br />Who <i>let</i> him do it? Who saw what he was doing and <i>applauded</i>. Who followed him willingly? Who saw "something wrong" and <i>didn't stop him</i>. Who failed to stand up to him and tell him "no"? Who felt things were wrong but cowardly looked away or, worse, went along with it?<br /><br />The answer is Scientologists -- they "had nothing to do with it" and so <i>they</i> in their cowardly no-responsibility <i>let it all happen</i>.<br /><br />And now you trot out your little <i>wrong</i> Why as another justification on why it "isn't your fault" that you all <i>let it happen</i> and even <i>applauded</i>.<br /><br />What was it that stopped Scientologists from being honest, courageous and decent?<br /><br />Try again. David Miscavige is a <i>symptom</i> of what is wrong in Scientology, <i>not</i> the cause of it.<br /><br />Your <i>wrong</i> Why guarantees that you will not be able to fix it.Just Billhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00700571144527474381noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5588150109003847843.post-23764189374411879602010-10-31T08:13:19.614-07:002010-10-31T08:13:19.614-07:00@Vertley
Ummm. That's nice, but did you even...@Vertley<br /><br />Ummm. That's nice, but did you even <i>read</i> what I wrote?<br /><br />It seems that practically every outside Scientologist makes the same mistake when defending Scientology. "It's all Miscavige, it's <i>only</i> Miscavige!"<br /><br />Did you <i>read</i> the eight characteristics that typify a cult? These are <i>not</i> isolated to only the Sea Org, they are practiced throughout Scientology, inside and outside the church. These were <i>not</i> created by Miscavige but are part of standard policies and practices of Scientology itself.<br /><br />I didn't make the criteria up and Lifton wasn't talking about Scientology -- he was talking about the common criteria of all cults.<br /><br />If the shoe fits, proclaim loudly that it's not your foot.<br /><br />Before getting out your old, <i>inapplicable</i> "Scientology is not a cult" excuses and justifications, why don't you take an honest look at what actually is there.<br /><br />And then <i>do</i> something about it instead of justifying it.Just Billhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00700571144527474381noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5588150109003847843.post-78951256004604687782010-10-31T02:12:25.762-07:002010-10-31T02:12:25.762-07:00This is SO well written. Very thought provoking. T...This is SO well written. Very thought provoking. Thank you.Synthianoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5588150109003847843.post-46002837687101263882010-10-30T23:14:05.905-07:002010-10-30T23:14:05.905-07:00Seems that practically everyone makes the same mis...Seems that practically everyone makes the same mistake when calling Scientology a cult. <br /><br />Below is the "admin why" and a more correct statement. When broadly grasped, this then will open the door for the necessary hand-ling's.<br /><br />"The Sea Organization: The current senior management group of the "church" lead by David Miscavige, is a rogue cult within Scientology. In every sense of the word and by any definition this group is a CULT. Public Scientologists and Staff Members not in the Sea Organization, are sort of "collateral damage" victims of the activities of this toxic cult group within Scientology and therefore exhibit cult symptoms even though they would argue vociferously to deny such." Vertley <br /><br />From the "The "WHY" For Scientology" article/project.Vertleyhttp://www.freeheber.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5588150109003847843.post-75090700748531971912010-10-30T14:52:04.180-07:002010-10-30T14:52:04.180-07:00Excellent summary Bill, once again you've nail...Excellent summary Bill, once again you've nailed it!<br /><br />There is one more fatal flaw to cults and that is the there is no one in a cult who would say they are.<br /><br />Once in the factors that you've delineated blind a convert to an obvious fact.Kevin Bloody Mackeynoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5588150109003847843.post-64548984982750154182010-10-30T14:31:43.547-07:002010-10-30T14:31:43.547-07:00WOW, Bill! Your posting on Cult Characteristics is...WOW, Bill! Your posting on Cult Characteristics is incredible. After I had been in Scientology and Dianetics for over 55 years I read a similar article showing the characteristics of a cult. I looked at every cult characteristic and the only rational conclusion was that every single point, and there were about 16 in this article, applied to Scientolgy. I decided I could not be a party to this kind of deception.<br />This was the very beginning of my break with the C of $. Thank you for your accurate examples of how the Church embodies each characteristic. Great job, Bill. The Old GeezerAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5588150109003847843.post-31333145375122268672010-10-30T13:25:02.871-07:002010-10-30T13:25:02.871-07:00It was a cult the minute Hubbard declared Scientol...It was a cult the minute Hubbard declared Scientology to be a religion. I don't know if it is even possible to restructure the tech in such a way so it can't be used to control people....possibly new leadership could change the crazy authoritarianism in the "religion", but then they would have to be outsiders because the poison that is Miscavage has run too deep. The Freezone replicates the mentality of the Co$ because it's the only form of Scientology it knows, so the Church's paranoia becomes the Freezone's. In the end it would be better for most Scientologists or ex-Scientologists to walk away completely from Ron and his tech, even though that might be the hardest thing they can do with their lives.Strelnikovhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12660962615198939441noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5588150109003847843.post-37945220210903611372010-10-30T13:04:37.694-07:002010-10-30T13:04:37.694-07:00Congratulations on another excellent post, Bill. Y...Congratulations on another excellent post, Bill. You've been at it long before the other prominent bloggers came on the scene and I appreciate your continued efforts to make sense of the insane cult of Scientology.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com