tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5588150109003847843.post898676705370066131..comments2023-09-18T04:45:52.991-07:00Comments on Ask the Scientologist: Scientologists: Scientology, Then and NowJust Billhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/00700571144527474381noreply@blogger.comBlogger26125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5588150109003847843.post-6177719374208585312013-03-26T16:40:50.287-07:002013-03-26T16:40:50.287-07:00Debbie Cook's 2012 email to Scientologists ann...Debbie Cook's 2012 email to Scientologists annotated. <br /><br />http://blogs.villagevoice.com/runninscared/2012/01/scientology_in_3.phpAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5588150109003847843.post-74081016632433961212013-03-26T16:08:43.103-07:002013-03-26T16:08:43.103-07:008. Finally, from Debbie Cook's 2012 email to ...8. Finally, from Debbie Cook's 2012 email to Scientologists:<br /><br />"I have the utmost respect for the thousands of dedicated Scientologists and Sea Org members.Together, we have come through everything this world could throw at us and have some real impingement on the world around us. I am proud of our accomplishments and I know you are too.<br /> <br />However there is no question that this new age of continuous fundraising is not our finest moment.<br /> <br />LRH says in HCO PL 9 Jan 51, An Essay on Management, “drop no curtains between the organization and the public about anything.”-LRH<br /> <br />Based on this policy I am communicating to you about some situations that we need to do something about within our religion, within our group. Actions that are either not covered in policy or directly violate LRH policy and tech include the extreme over-regging and fund-raising activities that have become so much a part of nearly every Sea Org org and Class V org as well as every “OT Committee”.<br /> <br />This fundraising is not covered anywhere in LRH policy.<br /> <br />Hardworking Sea Org members and the dedicated staff of orgs around the world aren’t choosing to do these actions.<br /> <br />Nor are the OTs. I am sure they would be more than happy if they could just get on with direct dissemination of Scientology as they have done for so many years.<br /> <br />But the truth is that this is being driven from the very highest echelons within the Scientology structure and clearly there is a lot of pressure to make targets that are being set.<br /> <br />The IAS:<br /> <br />The IAS was created unbeknownst to LRH in 1984 by Marc Yager and David Miscavige.<br /> <br />This was supposed to be based on LRH policies on the subject of membership and the HASI, however the IAS is nothing like the membership system described by LRH which only has two memberships and is covered in HCO PL 22 March 1965 “Current Promotion and Org Program Summary, Membership Rundown” and states: “There are two memberships…”- LRH<br /> <br />LRH lists there the INTERNATIONAL ANNUAL MEMBERSHIP and gives its cost at 10 pounds sterling or $30 US.<br /> <br />He also lists a LIFETIME MEMBERSHIP which is priced at $75 US.<br /> <br />There are no other memberships or statuses approved or known to LRH.<br /> <br />Furthermore, membership monies are supposed to go directly to the org where the membership is signed up, and the money used for dissemination by that org, in that area.<br /> <br />This is covered in HCOPL 1 Sept 1965R Membership Policies. “It all goes into the HCO Book Account in the area where the membership is brought and is not part of the organization’s weekly gross income. Membership monies go to dissemination”.- LRH<br /> <br />Currently membership monies are held as Int reserves and have grown to well in excess of a billion dollars.<br /> <br />Only a tiny fraction has ever been spent, in violation of the policy above. Only the interest earned from the holdings have been used very sparingly to fund projects through grants.<br /> <br />In fact many of the activities you see at IAS events are not actually funded by the IAS, but rather by the Scientologists involved."<br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5588150109003847843.post-90119777919674574252013-03-26T16:08:09.940-07:002013-03-26T16:08:09.940-07:007. On "donations and the Ideal Org program:
...7. On "donations and the Ideal Org program:<br /><br />These are some LRH references on this matter:<br /> <br /> “We own a tremendous amount of property. We own a tremendous amount of material, and so forth. And it keeps growing. But that’s not important.<br /> <br />When buildings get important to us, for God’s sake, some of you born revolutionists, will you please blow up central headquarters.<br /> <br />…<br /> <br />Don’t get interested in real estate. Don’t get interested in the masses of buildings, because that’s not important.”<br /> <br />Tape: The Genus of Scientology<br />Anatomy of the Human Mind Congress<br />31 December 1960<br /> <br /> “…In twenty years an enormous amount of experience has been gained regarding the quarters and housing of orgs. From this experience there are only a few clear-cut lessons. These follow:<br /> <br /> “A. VIABILITY of the org… is the first and foremost consideration… not how posh or what repute or what image.”<br /> <br /> “C. Image is a secondary consideration.”<br /> <br />HCO PL 23 Sept 1970 <br /> <br />Quarters, Policy Regarding – Historical<br /> <br /> “…So little by little, using donations you give us for your service, your training and your processing, we create little by little areas of sanity.”<br /> <br />LRH The Auditor #51, 1970<br /> <br />What Your Donations Buy <br /> <br /> “If the org slumps… don’t engage in ‘fund-raising’ or ‘selling postcards’ or borrowing money.<br /> <br />Just make more income with Scientology.<br /> <br />It’s a sign of very poor management to seek extraordinary solutions for finance outside Scientology. It has always failed.<br />“For orgs as for pcs, ‘Solve It With Scientology’.<br /> <br />Every time I myself have sought to solve financial or personnel in other ways than Scientology I have lost out. So I can tell you from experience that org solvency lies in More Scientology, not patented combs or fund-raising barbeques.”<br /> <br />HCO PL 24 February 1964, Issue II<br />Org Programming<br />(OEC Vol. 7, p. 930)<br /><br /><br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5588150109003847843.post-36722630396352439542013-03-26T16:02:00.777-07:002013-03-26T16:02:00.777-07:001.
“One can always assume, when policy is availabl...1.<br />“One can always assume, when policy is available, that nonexpansion is the direct result of the policy remaining unknown or not followed.” – LRH (HCO PL 13 Mar 65 III The Structure of Organization – What is Policy? OEC Vol 0, page 28)<br /><br /><br />2.<br />“If tech and org integrity and service are good, you get an expansion. More and knowledgeable people in the field stimulate more and more new people who then are routed to the HCO ES, etc. Around and around.<br /> <br />The cycle is only interrupted by inattentive or poor service resulting in ARC breaks in the field which if not handled end expansion. Even the attacks of competitors and the press have never stopped this circle. Only inattentive service or staff inattentive to functions or poor service halts. AN ORG THAT BELIEVES ANYTHING ELSE IS DELUDING ITSELF. Thus organization and function is everything.” – LRH (LRH ED 49RA INT, Organization Program No. 1, OEC Vol 7, page 277)<br /><br />3. COB’s solutions are the direct opposite of what LRH said in policy:<br /> <br />“SOLVE IT WITH SCIENTOLOGY” [Title of section being quoted from this HCO PL ]<br /> <br />“If the org slumps during this period, don’t engage in ‘fund raising’ or ‘selling postcards’ or borrowing money.<br /> <br />“Just make more income with Scientology.<br /> <br />“It’s a sign of very poor management to seek extraordinary solutions for finance outside Scientology. It has always failed.”<br /> <br />“For orgs, as well as pcs ‘Solve It With Scientology’. <br /><br />“Every time I myself have sought to solve finance or personnel in other ways than Scientology I have lost out. So I can tell you from experience that org solvency lies in more Scientology, not patented combs or fund-raising barbecues.” (HCO PL 24 Feb 64 II Org Programming; OEC Vol 7, p. 930)<br /><br />4.<br />"If it isn't in an HCOB or an HCO Pol Ltr or recorded on tape in my voice, it isn't tech or policy." — L. Ron Hubbard, HCO PL 16 April AD 15, THE "HIDDEN DATA LINE”.<br /><br />5.<br />LRH says in HCO PL 9 Jan 51, An Essay on Management, “drop no curtains between the organization and the public about anything.”-LRH<br /><br />6. Conditions for exchange<br /><br />First consider a group which takes in money but does not deliver anything in exchange. This is called rip-off. It is the “exchange” condition of robbers, tax men, governments and other criminal elements.<br /><br />Second is the condition of partial exchange. The group takes in orders or money for goods and then delivers part of it or a corrupted version of what was ordered. This is called short-changing or “running into debt” in that more and more is owed, in service or goods, by the group.<br /><br />The third condition is the exchange known, legally and in business practice, as “fair exchange.” One takes in orders and money and delivers exactly what has been ordered. Most successful businesses and activities work on the basis of “fair exchange.”<br /><br />The fourth condition of exchange is not common but could be called exchange in abundance. Here one does not give two for one or free service but gives something more valuable than money was received for. Example: The group has diamonds for sale; an average diamond is ordered; the group delivers a blue-white diamond above average. Also it delivers it promptly and with courtesy.<br /><br />– L. Ron Hubbard – <br />HCO PL 10 Sep 82 – Exchange, Org Income and Staff Pay <br /><br />A NOTE too on tech alterations by DM, changing to "most" tax men":<br /><br />Here is an original LRH PL 10 September 1982 -<br /><br />This is called rip off. It is the exchange condition of robbers, tax men, governments and other criminal elements.<br /><br />Here is the CSI new Life Improvement Course "Dynamics of Money" page 45 -<br /><br />This is called rip off. It is the exchange condition of robbers, most tax men, many governments and criminal elements.<br /><br />(this change is interesting in view of the special deal between RTC and the IRS. In the IRS deal, David Miscavige is named "tax compliance officer.")<br /><br /><br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5588150109003847843.post-66381955756536999532009-12-14T12:48:02.052-08:002009-12-14T12:48:02.052-08:00I've read all your posts with interest, being ...I've read all your posts with interest, being myself an ex-SO who smelled a rat around 1991 with the progressive halt of all broad dissem activities and the stops that kept piling up while everybody was being sidetracked on frantic RTC projects that continue up to these days and have only crashed the orgs, the progressive disparition of high execs I worked with and admired, the slow destruction of the feeling that existed prior in Scn to be replaced by rampant fascism and abuse of staff and public. <br />I can see the truth in some of the points brought up, mainly how one man singlehandedly took over the church and broke it and its spirit.<br />The big question remains, for those who still think that despite all its flaws, LRH tech is still the best tech we've been given to build a better world, what do we do now? How do we get rid of the evil that has taken hold of the movement when its own members, those who remain, are too blind, too powerless or too scared to act?<br />I'm sitting on the sidelines, seeing my old favorite team being blown to bits by its own incompetent coach, seeing the efforts of half of my life and those of all my former friends blown to the winds by a two-faced dwarf.<br />There's a lesson to be learned, that's for sure. LRH, if he's still around is probably taking notes, won't make the same mistake again. <br />I just hope those who have had the courage to stay, despite the duress, will rise and overthrow the SP in their midst. There are enough of them old-timers in the boiler's room at Hemet to make the putsch. They won't even need a gun, the man is alone in his castle. He's chased everyone else out, even his wife. <br />Noone will raise a finger for him, not after what he'd done to them.<br />And it's public popularity ? Scientologists will believe what they are told, just like they did with Pat Broeker or any other public figure that fell into disgrace. That's one point the dwarf always played on. It's time he tasted of its own medicine for a change.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5588150109003847843.post-43208636032527636492009-08-05T20:21:15.110-07:002009-08-05T20:21:15.110-07:00Re: No events
I recall the LRH lecture where he s...Re: No events<br /><br />I recall the LRH lecture where he spoke about how disastrous the big events were was "The Five Conditions". I could be wrong.Just Billhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00700571144527474381noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5588150109003847843.post-65661838887205411772009-08-05T19:11:37.478-07:002009-08-05T19:11:37.478-07:00Re: No events
Thanks for your comments.
While th...Re: No events<br /><br />Thanks for your comments.<br /><br />While there was a specific advice from LRH to management forbidding the big events, it was not published to the public. A number of ex-management people have attested to the existence of this advice.<br /><br />In addition, LRH referred to the disaster that such events caused in at least one lecture -- probably one of his lectures on organization.<br /><br />There may be other references as well, perhaps one of our readers can help.<br /><br />But, ultimately, the evidence is simply the fact that LRH stopped holding big events in the late 50s and never, ever held even one more.Just Billhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00700571144527474381noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5588150109003847843.post-25635495162266466782009-08-05T12:51:04.505-07:002009-08-05T12:51:04.505-07:00hello thanks for writing all this opening eyes pos...hello thanks for writing all this opening eyes posts<br />i new something was wrong inside the church<br />i am off of ot7 since 2003 and i dont want to finish it.<br />can you give us the reference where LRH said no events???<br /><br />thanks <br />anonymousAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5588150109003847843.post-34080487256621053582009-03-29T13:57:00.000-07:002009-03-29T13:57:00.000-07:00@RenegadeExact references are always appreciated. ...@Renegade<BR/><BR/>Exact references are always appreciated. Thanks!Just Billhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00700571144527474381noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5588150109003847843.post-4962831053678483272009-03-29T13:44:00.000-07:002009-03-29T13:44:00.000-07:00The LRH ref that applies to"pure donations" is Vit...The LRH ref that applies to"pure donations" is Vital Data on Promotion 21 Jan 65R OEC Vol 2 pg 120<BR/><BR/>d. "Subsidy is a fine way to fail and ALWAYS leads to a dead end. A subsidized office ceases to promote as it no longer depends on doing 3) Dissemination - accumulation of the identities of persons and (4) Salesmanship-offering those identities something they will buy for its daily bread. So it is useless in the scheme of things and, not serving, becomes dangerous."<BR/><BR/>Another good ref to read is<BR/>23 Sep 70 Quarters, Policy Regarding Historical.<BR/><BR/>"G. Other businesses or rentals to support an org wind up very costly. Schemes other than Scientology actions can be a nuisance. Scientology supports Scientology."<BR/><BR/>Hope this helps to clarify the above.<BR/><BR/>"Renegade"Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5588150109003847843.post-37787122311703976662008-07-25T15:15:00.000-07:002008-07-25T15:15:00.000-07:00I personally agree 100% with your assessment here....I personally agree 100% with your assessment here.<BR/><BR/>I have nothing further to add, except an acknowledgment and a smily :)Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5588150109003847843.post-80420885661433885492008-07-16T20:51:00.000-07:002008-07-16T20:51:00.000-07:00"I have a feeling that we're going to start hearin..."I have a feeling that we're going to start hearing more about ruthless tactics to get people to join the Sea Org, and we're probably going to hear about even worse living conditions.'<BR/><BR/>I've heard that Davey is shrinking the SO for some reason. On a related note, staff might now outnumber public.<BR/><BR/>-RedAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5588150109003847843.post-84094065658504337432008-07-16T13:58:00.000-07:002008-07-16T13:58:00.000-07:00Thanks, mattgsx, for pointing this out. My respon...Thanks, mattgsx, for pointing this out. My response was non-specific on what I was agreeing with. I was agreeing that Miscavige was pile-driving the church into the ground, <I>not</I> any disparagement of Scientologists.<BR/><BR/>It is not true and is of no valid use to insult Scientologists. As I've pointed out many times, Scientologists are fed small bits of <I>carefully selected</I> and <I>generally acceptable</I> information. They <I>do not know</I> the crazy bits, and are forbidden from looking.<BR/><BR/>Attacking Scientologists is the wrong target! The source of the insanity and abuse is Miscavige (and Hubbard, but he's dead). Scientologists should be helped to escape, helped to see, helped to reconnect, <I>not</I> attacked.Just Billhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00700571144527474381noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5588150109003847843.post-64390321997401532032008-07-16T12:35:00.000-07:002008-07-16T12:35:00.000-07:00I just wanted to point out, to the poster saying t...I just wanted to point out, to the poster saying that members of "the church" lacked "adequate mental facilities" and next that agreed:<BR/><BR/>Many Scientoligists aren't stupid. They are slowly and steadily cultivated over a long period of time, using conditioning tools that were developed by totalitarian governments for the purposes of "re-education". Anyone, whether they have "adequate mental facilities" or not can fall victim to these tactics. <BR/><BR/>Calling a member of "the church" stupid, unthinking, or mentally lacking isn't going to get them to blow; they'll probably just invest more of themselves. These are real people who are in a real crisis, and they need compassion. <BR/><BR/>I have a feeling that we're going to start hearing more about ruthless tactics to get people to join the Sea Org, and we're probably going to hear about even worse living conditions.MattGSXhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01110918387788692261noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5588150109003847843.post-79653760299839407822008-07-16T09:58:00.000-07:002008-07-16T09:58:00.000-07:00Regarding LRH forbidding "pure donations", this wa...Regarding LRH forbidding "pure donations", this was in dispatches at top management, not in widely published policy letters. I'll see if I can get a reference or copy.<BR/><BR/>The empirical evidence is much easier to find, in all the years LRH was in charge, <I>it was never done!</I> You <I>know</I> people thought of it, since it <I>is</I> such a "church thing", but it wasn't done.<BR/><BR/>I'll post when/if I get more info.Just Billhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00700571144527474381noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5588150109003847843.post-15994405470425818002008-07-15T23:07:00.000-07:002008-07-15T23:07:00.000-07:00Could you give the reference where L. Ron Hubbard ...Could you give the reference where L. Ron Hubbard forbids pure donations?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5588150109003847843.post-68933474683801905632008-07-14T20:29:00.000-07:002008-07-14T20:29:00.000-07:00Virtually all the money for the Church of Scientol...Virtually all the money for the Church of Scientology, buildings, lawyers, TV ads, is coming from "public Scientologists". The church is squeezing the very last penny from every Scientologist -- especially the few remaining wealthy ones. All "true" Scientologists are going very deeply into debt to support all this.<BR/><BR/>With no new public being roped in, and with few Scientologists having any money left to give, the church is getting very desperate. The pressure on the few remaining wealthy Scientologists is extremely intense to give it ALL up.<BR/><BR/>Today, being a Scientologist must be awful! Public Scientologists are 'way over their heads in debt, struggling to just survive, under intense pressure to give even more money, and being attacked (the church tells them) by The Evil Ones.<BR/><BR/>As these Scientologists break out, you are going to be hearing some pretty horrible stories! Miscavige has destroyed a lot of people's lives! More today than ever before!Just Billhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00700571144527474381noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5588150109003847843.post-81163459807259114352008-07-14T18:40:00.000-07:002008-07-14T18:40:00.000-07:00Dear Bill,How is it possible that the "church" con...Dear Bill,<BR/>How is it possible that the "church" continues to buy and restore all these buildings that end up sitting largely empty? With media entheta beyond anything I could have ever dreamt (mostly self-inflicted) in full swing, where is the money coming from? I really think the CoS is withering, but what kind of financial legerdemain is going on that they can keep up the appearance of growth? Do they pour everything into real estate? The real estate crash must be killing them. Any ideas on this subject would be appreciated.Artoo45https://www.blogger.com/profile/14300348322780544335noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5588150109003847843.post-28292175442318043662008-07-14T17:06:00.000-07:002008-07-14T17:06:00.000-07:00This one blog post, if it were to include citation...This one blog post, if it were to include citations, would be powerful enough all by itself to change current Scientologists' minds and accomplish the goal of awakening people to bring about freedom of truth.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5588150109003847843.post-12653078528147728712008-07-14T16:37:00.000-07:002008-07-14T16:37:00.000-07:00I think that Miscavige has destroyed the Church of...I think that Miscavige <I>has</I> destroyed the Church of Scientology. The damage he has inflicted is so severe and so destructive, I see it as the end of the church. I see no possible recovery, even when Miscavige is gone.<BR/><BR/>It is <I>possible</I> that some Scientologists could band together and create some new group -- but it would have to make significant changes in how it exists and how it lives with others. The seeds of the church's destruction were sown by the policies of L. Ron Hubbard.Just Billhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00700571144527474381noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5588150109003847843.post-23429761480713735642008-07-14T16:20:00.000-07:002008-07-14T16:20:00.000-07:00Oh boy. I suppose we truly are f*'d. Seriously - ...Oh boy. I suppose we truly are f*'d. Seriously - it's kinda past the point where it can go back, ya? I mean, won't life be happier just living it and trying to do some good, instead of trying to go up "the bridge," or, conversely, just giving up? I think it's time for people to wake up and just live life to the fullest - pretty simple, no?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5588150109003847843.post-35868512108178373492008-07-14T13:33:00.000-07:002008-07-14T13:33:00.000-07:00omg i love youthank u so much for doing this. more...omg i love you<BR/>thank u so much for doing this. more than i can say. <BR/>i had wanted to make something similar but i ddnt have enough info.<BR/><BR/>david miscaviage is a 1.1. i dont know why nobody sees itAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5588150109003847843.post-44604670077016068872008-07-14T08:47:00.000-07:002008-07-14T08:47:00.000-07:00unmasked,This is true. What is a very good thing ...unmasked,<BR/><BR/>This is true. What is a <I>very</I> good thing is that, once a Scientologist leaves Scientology, they <I>can</I> and usually <I>do</I> recover their ability to observe, to think and to understand. The suppression of intelligence is usually temporary.<BR/><BR/>Everything Miscavige does only hastens the destruction of the church. Unfortunately, he is hurting a lot of people as he goes down.Just Billhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00700571144527474381noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5588150109003847843.post-73151011392774211042008-07-14T06:41:00.000-07:002008-07-14T06:41:00.000-07:00The "church" of Scientology is founded upon people...The "church" of Scientology is founded upon people not thinking, not paying attention.. If the members of the "church" were in possession of anything resembling adequate mental facilities, they wouldn't be funding an organisation as corrupt as the "church" of Scientology to begin with, so yes, Miscavige is piledriving Scientology into the dirt.. But thats a good thing..Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5588150109003847843.post-64643824694186594462008-07-13T22:21:00.000-07:002008-07-13T22:21:00.000-07:00The first is speaking of expansion or lack of expa...The first is speaking of expansion or lack of expansion, not closing. The second is talking about fake "expansion" and actual closings.<BR/><BR/>In actual fact, during Hubbard's time, if a church was in imminent danger of closing, he actually WOULD do something to save it. Miscavige simply tells two failing churches who are near each other to "combine".Just Billhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00700571144527474381noreply@blogger.com