tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5588150109003847843.post5416443304345751413..comments2023-09-18T04:45:52.991-07:00Comments on Ask the Scientologist: How Scientologists Will Destroy ScientologyJust Billhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/00700571144527474381noreply@blogger.comBlogger16125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5588150109003847843.post-77214737280863013862012-01-11T05:15:30.834-08:002012-01-11T05:15:30.834-08:00Nice one, Just Bill.Nice one, Just Bill.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5588150109003847843.post-29578644579673190422011-04-02T01:49:52.201-07:002011-04-02T01:49:52.201-07:00The guy was a fantastist and a science fiction wri...The guy was a fantastist and a science fiction writer dude. Not a prophet.<br /><br />Do you know how scientology came about? Let me tell you (and this is a true story)<br /><br />Hubbard was having a conversation with Isaac Asimov about what would be the best ways to make a lot of money very quickly. Asimov joked to Hubbard that the best way was to start a religion.<br /><br />Hubbard went very quiet, nodded his head and agreed.<br /><br />The next year he published Dianetics.<br /><br />It was ALL about money for Hubbard, and its ALL about Money and Power for his happy follower Miscavige.<br /><br />Dianetics is an awful book. It uses 50 words where 5 would do, and adds in lots of inpenetrable phraseology so that you are never really sure what the hell he is saying.<br /><br />Stick to Tony Robbins. At least he doesn't claim to be running a religion, but that is at least life affirming, rather then wallet crunching.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5588150109003847843.post-42084800368290604602010-03-16T08:29:51.373-07:002010-03-16T08:29:51.373-07:00Yes thats why i made sure i said "if True&quo...Yes thats why i made sure i said "if True", as most if not all things i read from LRH were stated in such a way as "this is a fact" or "the Truth is", These things may have worked back in LRH's days but "most" people tend to need more than words. The restucturing of our subconcious should remain a personal struggle and not put into the hands of the unknown. Still i find myself Curious.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5588150109003847843.post-85557300947699911832010-03-16T07:06:25.259-07:002010-03-16T07:06:25.259-07:00The key phrase in your comment is "the ideas ...The key phrase in your comment is "the ideas are relevant and helpful <i>if true</i>".<br /><br />But there is no evidence that they are true. Hubbard forbid any kind of testing to see if <i>anything</i> he said was true. Scientology declares as an "Enemy" anyone who asks for any proof.<br /><br />Some of the ideas are intriguing, certainly, and I am a strong advocate of more research, but there is no evidence that Scientology actually produces anything promised.<br /><br />You see, the "greater public" <i>has</i> investigated Scientology, and they found it simply not worth perusing -- all talk and no results.Just Billhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00700571144527474381noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5588150109003847843.post-65872197927885379062010-03-15T22:34:57.907-07:002010-03-15T22:34:57.907-07:00I’m not a scientologist and never have been. I con...I’m not a scientologist and never have been. I consider myself uneducated in that regard. I have read the basic concepts of LRH and still cant believe these haven’t been investigated by the greater public as the ideas are relevant and helpful if true. If they have its not common knowledge (Cause I’m common). I feel for the people that have had bad experiences with scientology , I feel you must have an open mind to try such things. Keep your open mind and always do what you feel is the right thing.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5588150109003847843.post-87818259688863816562010-03-02T19:51:09.323-08:002010-03-02T19:51:09.323-08:00It's been killin' me -
I feel bad about ...It's been killin' me - <br /><br />I feel bad about my Lunamoth comment above. I reviewed the original thread today and found that my comment about "Look at me" was a snap judgment on my part while trying to dig for the gold. Lunamoth has some very keen observances and statements in "The Bridge to Nowhere" article as well as many others. <br /><br />Lunamoth, I am sorry for my comment and I respect your words. <br /><br />WallflowerAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5588150109003847843.post-82219008063299924982010-03-01T01:59:54.499-08:002010-03-01T01:59:54.499-08:00You've put your finger on why I have such a pr...You've put your finger on why I have such a problem with labels.<br /><br />I can't really consider myself a Scientologist, nor a Free Zoner, nor an Independent.<br /><br />Guess I'll just have to be myself.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5588150109003847843.post-4949973573832832212010-02-21T16:40:27.501-08:002010-02-21T16:40:27.501-08:00Thank you for your comments, you tell an important...Thank you for your comments, you tell an important story and I appreciate it.Just Billhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00700571144527474381noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5588150109003847843.post-7427365436481653002010-02-21T16:28:38.759-08:002010-02-21T16:28:38.759-08:00I continue to think about my experiences in Scient...I continue to think about my experiences in Scientology and reflect on the similarities and differences experienced in other types of, for lack of a better word, metaphysical disciplines. I am tending to conclude that many, many weak, power-hungry people gravitate toward "save the world" type cults to prop themselves up and simultaneously attack others in the name of helping them. And, of course, there's always a lot of money to be made telling people that some process or mantra or affirmation will heal/improve them. <br /><br />I now think that my "improvement" in Scientology was largely the result of being around people who acknowledged something I'd always wanted to believe and still think may be true: we are not just bodies that disappear. We have a vaster experience than that. Also, the people I was around were, perhaps because of believing in eternity, cheerful, courageous and kind. When I ran into other types, I tended to begin to doubt Scientology. Some of the processes seemed to "wake me up." but how they did it, I don't know. As you have said, Just Bill, perhaps I just postulated myself Clear and nobody invalidated it!<br /><br />I agree with all the other comments about the insidiousness (and obvious illogic) of 'no crimes because you pull it in yourself.' Even if that is metaphysically true, it is not a way to live life--it is something to hold in your own heart, if you wish, but to express it can cause great harm and needless suffering to others and to think you can commit crimes on people and then blame them is simply criminal. <br /><br />I'm on a journey of recovery after realizing all the harm one family member did to our already disfunctional family, and ironically he is the one who was/is the ardent Scientologist and probably would now consider himself among the "I know what's best and you'd better listen or you're suppressive" ones you write about. He used every tenet of LRH's system to create pain--this is a person who interpreted the idea that anger is above grief on the tone scale thusly: when I was suicidally depressed in my twenties--partly because he'd sexually abused me when I was five years old and I'd pushed it into my subconscious--he made fun of me to "make me come uptone." When his toddler daughter cried, he threw water in her face, I guess because the shock would supposedly make her angry? Who the hell knows? His cruelty continues to be synonymous with Scientology for me. I suppose this all sounds very personal, but I have a broader point: everyone who deals with religious or political groups needs to be very aware that such groups attract power-mad individuals who may be intelligent or whatever, but ultimately cause pain to others. <br /><br />Part of my recovery from abuse is to continue to tell my story and make others aware of the abusive nature of many cults, psychics, healers, etc. Don't let people tell you they are superior or have superior knowledge--ask to see what they have accomplished and look at their own life's data. For all the above reasons, I'm afraid of the Freezone and I think justifiably so.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5588150109003847843.post-85340709131766127462010-02-20T08:33:17.651-08:002010-02-20T08:33:17.651-08:00Re: Harmless
You could be right. I agree that th...Re: Harmless<br /><br />You could be right. I agree that the "blame the victim" part of Scientology is both harmful and ridiculous. Much abuse is accomplished under that justification -- but that <i>would</i> be what I would include in the harmful group.<br /><br />The parts of Scientology that damage people are what are remembered and talked about. And, in Miscavige's church, these parts <i>are</i> everywhere.<br /><br />But there are thousands and <i>thousands</i> of "processes" that Scientologists might run which are neither harmful nor particularly beneficial. You don't think about them nor hear much about them because they are like dull wallpaper, there, but of no importance. That's what I was referring to.<br /><br />I understand, and agree, with your sentiment. Each (ex-)Scientologist who attains freedom and re-learns how to think and how to see what is really there is a good thing.Just Billhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00700571144527474381noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5588150109003847843.post-21589752085568265832010-02-20T02:51:20.835-08:002010-02-20T02:51:20.835-08:00I don't agree that "A majority of Sciento...I don't agree that "A majority of Scientology technology could be considered harmless." I believe that belief in evil past life engrams and the kind of "blame the victim" psychology is terribly harmful. The kind of loaded LGAT type psychology is not healthy. I will be happy to see organized Scientology go, and I will be even more happy when exes breathe free and start to embrace free thinking.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5588150109003847843.post-89119971757549087452010-02-19T20:47:15.617-08:002010-02-19T20:47:15.617-08:00(Hmmm. I just tried to post, and not sure if it wo...(Hmmm. I just tried to post, and not sure if it worked or not. Apologies if there are two similar posts.)<br /><br />Bill, <br /><br />What you say is absolutely correct. It is the new "Independent Scientology" that is going to be the "undoing of Scientology". Unless something changes - quickly.<br /><br />Ironically, some of the nastiest posters have also been abused by Miscavige. Isn't that what LRH calls, "swapping terminals" or in non-Scio speak, "the abused become the abuser?" Hubbard was not the only person who observed this phenomenon, however. The Buddha so did as well. In Buddhism, there is also a saying, "The fool thinks he has won a battle when he bullies with harsh speech, but knowing how to be forbearing alone makes one victorious."<br /><br />There are a number of posters who DO show much forbearance and demonstrate a deep intelligence and wisdom, however they seem to get run off by the bullies. This is quite unfortunate for those who have some hope of seeing the Indie movement, along with the Freezone, survive in any meaningful way. The Freezone may be the only sane group left standing when the dust settles, and if so - that's just groovy. They are doing a great job and not busting up the place - or the people.<br /><br />There was some hope when all this started last year that something extraordinary was in the offing. But it has deteriorated rapidly and the ship is taking on water. Maybe it's not time to abandon ship just yet, but if enough people don't start throwing over the abusive ones,she's going DOWN. <br /><br />Of course, a wise "Buddha-like" person would say that the best solution would be to bring those who are causing the trouble into a heightened state of awareness and understanding. I honestly don't know if that's possible. It's been tried. Higher awareness would require something other than the viewpoint that LRH's tech is infallible which, I don't forsee any of these folks ever contemplating.<br /><br />Thank you again Bill. You are one of those wise ones I am talking about. XOUnknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09570568269710994519noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5588150109003847843.post-22984114524517982232010-02-19T20:21:03.887-08:002010-02-19T20:21:03.887-08:00LOL I wish I'd had you at my computer keyboar...LOL I wish I'd had you at my computer keyboard<br />that evening, Just Bill. This article is a thing of beauty. <br /><br />I'm reminded by the above comment (Wallflower) how many people read but don't participate in these blogs. At the time we were posting it seemed like just the bunch of us in a room. When the exchanges get heated it's easy to forget there are lots of people reading. <br /><br />Anyway, thank you very much for this piece you've written. It's good to be able to discuss this stuff freely. I appreciate what you do to keep that channel open.lunamothnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5588150109003847843.post-48548731065939057052010-02-19T19:57:09.462-08:002010-02-19T19:57:09.462-08:00No, they DON'T know what went wrong with the c...No, they DON'T know what went wrong with the church!<br />IMO, there is something fundamentally wrong with an organization that someone like dm can hijack. Sure, he's a major prick, and he needs to go, but how about finding out how the hell "he" happened. That same unwillingness to admit that tech and policy could be flawed keeps these hardcore guys from seeing the problem that preceeded dm. <br /><br />Thanks alot for writing this. I'm just glad to see someone say it exactly like it is. It's also good to know that these guys really are the minority now. Kinda freaked me out, to tell you the truth, to hear all that "suppressive act" and bullshit condition assinment stuff again. Glad it was all a bad dream this time!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5588150109003847843.post-23165351295761387722010-02-19T18:15:49.205-08:002010-02-19T18:15:49.205-08:00@Wallflower
That was definitely part of it. Geez...@Wallflower<br /><br />That was definitely part of it. Geez, don't these fanatics understand what went wrong in the church?<br /><br />No, of course not, they blame it all on Miscavige and then continue his insanities.Just Billhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00700571144527474381noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5588150109003847843.post-80658218546417372662010-02-19T18:03:46.001-08:002010-02-19T18:03:46.001-08:00Wild guess? - JL, Virgil and a couple others on &q...Wild guess? - JL, Virgil and a couple others on "The Bridge to Nowhere" replies? This was one of the most captivating reads I've seen in some time. It get's a bit intense near the end in between Luna's "look at me" posts (nothing against moon moth, I actually like her(?)), but the truth becomes present of most posters and you start to see sides taking shape. This will be a very intersting and entertaining year. <br /><br />Love your stuff. Just hope you get more visits, replies and questions. I do promote your site when I can.<br /><br />WallflowerAnonymousnoreply@blogger.com