Because of various problems with Blogger, I've copied everything as of November 26, 2012 over to WordPress. The new location is Ask the Scientologist. I am not deleting this blog and will still accept comments and answer questions here too, but any new articles will appear at the WordPress location. I apologize if this causes any problems.

Wednesday, November 21, 2007

Do Scientologists really believe in that alien stuff?

Question:
That really weird stuff on South Park and on some sites on the Internet about Scientology and aliens, is that really what Scientologists believe?

Answer:
Some probably do. But most don't. Well, the amazing thing is that most Scientologists don't even know about that "alien stuff".

The truth is, to Scientologists, that "alien stuff" is part of the upper levels, which are confidential. Only a minority of Scientologists have reached those upper levels. The other Scientologists are not allowed to see or know about that stuff, and just about all of them comply with that rule. They are told that reading this material before one is "ready" will make you very ill or even kill you.

This means that they avoid South Park and many sites on the Internet. Also many magazines, news media and so forth. It's kind of tough trying to avoid all this stuff that's out there.

This has led to the very strange situation where more non-Scientologists have read the upper level materials than Scientologists.

If you attempt to talk to a Scientologist about this material, they will either give you a blank look, or get upset because they think you are trying to kill them. It's only amusing the first few times you try this.

Just Bill

29 comments:

  1. The official PR line (as voiced by Mike Rinder earlier this year in a TV interview) is that the "alien stuff" is not a central part of Scientology's beliefs, and that the published accounts of the "Xenu" story have been "altered". However, when a Scientologist reaches OT III, they find that the "alien stuff" IS central to the OT levels, and that the "Xenu Story" is pretty much as it has been described in the media. Why the Church denies it I don't know. Every religion has its bizarre-sounding creation myth and this is Scientology's. Why deny it?

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. From a court transcript Civil Action No. 95B2143 [Sept 1995], Religious Technology Center (Plaintiff) vs. F.A.C.T.NET, Inc., et al (Defendants):

      Q: When Mr. Hubbard made the discovery in 1967 of what became OT III, did he announce it to Scientologists around the world?

      A (Warren McShane): Yes, in a recorded message that went out to all Scientologists.

      Q: What did he say?

      A: Well, Mr. Hubbard explained that there was a great catastrophe that occurred 75 million years ago that left this planet a desert and that he had found the way out to undo that. The fact that he even said that not to worry, that the people who caused that great catastrophe were no longer around. And that he had discovered a way to unravel the harmful effects that were done at that time period.

      Q: That has always been broad knowledge?

      A: Of course.

      Q: Has that information ever been confidential that you have just recounted?

      A: No.

      "Join the Sea Org" recruiting poster for Scientology

      Q: And do the uniforms of the Sea Organization itself reflect that information?

      A: Yes, they do.

      Q: In what way?

      A: Well, the uniforms are designed to reflect the Galactic Confederation, which we believe existed many, many years ago. In fact on our hat that we wear [we] have a emblem on it which is published in our technical dictionary. It has a lower wreath with 26 leaves on it and those stand for the 26 planets that existed in this sector of the universe. The star itself that's on the emblem reflects the spirit and we wear those as a symbol of what we stand for, who we are.

      Q: When Mr. Hubbard mentioned in 1967 that this concerned, an event that happened 75 million years ago, was there any concern that this would turn off Scientologists or people because it concerned something that would seem like scientific?

      A: No, not at all.

      Q: Why not?

      A: Because it was an event that occurred that he wanted the public to know about. People always asked questions about what happened to man and how man was created and how this planet was created. And talking about that in the past has always been of interest to many, many people......

      Q: Could you take Exhibit 79 [OT III] and point out to the court by indicating the portions of OT III where the secret is?

      A: ....The discussion of the volcanoes, the explosions, the Galactic confederation 75 million years ago, and a gentleman by the name Xemu there. Those are not trade secrets. The officers mentioned there are not [either]....

      Q: Now, Exhibit 94 is "Ron's Journal 67," a lecture given on 20 September, 1967. Can you tell the court the portion of that you would like to invite the court's attention to?

      A: Certainly. On page 6, I hand wrote in on a page on the bottom there, page 6, the fourth paragraph down from the top of the page it says: "And it's very true that a great catastrophe occurred on this planet and another 75 planets which formed this confederation 75 million years ago, and since that time it has been desert and has been a lot of just a handful to try to push its technology to a level where someone might venture forward, penetrate the catastrophe and undo it."

      Q: Does that in any way reveal the secrets of OT III?

      A: Absolutely not......

      Q: Now, I recited some of the story of Xemu and the body Thetans from memory of newspaper articles in my opening statements. Is it your testimony that none of that is part of the trade secret that you are seeking to protect here?

      A: When you referred to Xemu 75 million years ago, the volcanoes, that's not the trade secret.

      Q: And body of Thetans and so forth?

      A: Right.

      Delete
  2. I can think of a lot of better ways Scientology could have handled this. No one knows why they goofed it so badly.

    I see it as "deer in the headlights" reaction. The stuff is "confidential", no one may ever talk about it or horrible things will happen. Then, boomI, it's all over the media, internet, etc.

    Deer in the headlights time. "Um, um, it's all lies". Default answer for the Church of Scientology: "It's all lies".

    There was no policy for such a situation, and they couldn't think for themselves. They screwed it up by THEM making a big deal over it. There are just as strange things in some of Hubbard's books, but no one makes anything out of that.

    ReplyDelete
  3. Discovering one's past lives on other space civilizations, THAT is absolutely public knowledge, two book references with "case histories" are "Have You Lived Before this Life" and the out of print, but still excellent Hubbard reference called "Dianetics Today". Those two Hubbard books give excellent "space opera" "alien" case history incidents that are publicly available.

    Hubbard's Red volumes are FULL of "space opera" and "alien" writings by Hubbard.

    If you become a Scientologist, you will delve into your past lives on other space civilizations even BEFORE you get up to the confidential OT 3 level (OT 3 is special since that is where you find out about the "body thetans" who are the dead souls, mentioned above). South Park thankfully very accurately quoted from a Hubbard 1968 lecture, which I discuss below.

    Talk "body thetans" and Scientologists cannot talk at all about "body thetans" back to you.

    Hubbard made it a "suppressive act" for Scientologists to discuss "Xenu" and "body thetans" publicly.

    The reason for this, takes some thinking through.

    Hubbard's "lower bridge", meaning all the therapy processes (sets of commands all neatly packaged into groups per Hubbard's rules and writings), all the lower bridge processes deal with YOUR "case" as the single thetan that YOU actually are.

    On the secret "upper level" called "OT 3" (and above), you learn that you are infested with alien souls, and each of those souls has its own "case", and that the "case" of these alien hitchhiking souls by osmosis leaks into your own head, and you see immediately that you have a lot more strange things coming into your head, and those strange things come from the minds of your hitchhiking "body thetans."

    It's truly religious therapy.

    Hubbard thought that a person given the info about how "body thetans" influence them, would be "overwhelmed" case wise, and NOT be able to tell what is their own "case" and what is the "case" of their "body thetans."

    When ready, Scientologists use the Hubbard OT level 3, 4, 5, 6 and 7 procedures to get rid of their hitchhiking alien souls, the "body thetans".

    Unofficial Scientologists who are NOT in good standing, might tell you the truth, but official Scientologists and stickler unofficial Scientologists won't talk "Xenu" and "body thetans" with you.
    There is a great advance in recent history, the Hubbard "Class 8 lectures" have been put on the internet.

    In the Class 8 lectures, about 19 lectures, Hubbard, in 1968, speaks to the then highest level spiritual therapists of the Scientology movement, and he gives all sorts of insider comments about dealing with a person's "case" including the trouble a person might be having due to some "malignant" "body thetans" that are bothering a person.

    There is NO doubting that "body thetans" and the troublesome crap that comes from "body thetans" is real, to these upper level Class 8 or the Scientologists who are OT 3 level or above.

    This stuff is an acquired reality.

    It's an acquired religious reality of the cosmos, that is practiced like a therapy absolutely.

    South Park episode mainly takes information from lecture number 10 of Hubbard's 1968 "Class 8 lectures." Lecture 10 is called "Assists" and without much alteration paraphrases what Hubbard says about how alien space leader "Xenu" committed planticide, 75 million years ago, and truly, it is ironic that this lecture is NOT allowed to be listened to by the average Scientologist, they each have to rise up to Class 8 therapist status to even listen to this lecture, which almsot NONE of them do so.

    The fact that Class 8 lecture number 10, "Assists", is in the public domain, is HUGE. Listen to is, a few times.

    You will get Hubbard's view of this "alien" stuff quite clearly!

    Chuck Beatty
    ex Sea Org (lifetime staffer)
    1975-2003
    Pittsburgh, USA
    412-260-1170

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Correct me if you think I'm wrong, but as far as I'm aware, we've probably ALL had dreams like those at some point. There's nothing religious about it. Many may be inspired by games and films these days. Lots of people get the shadow people thing for example. I wonder if Hubbard had that. A lot of people do think its something real because its vivid and they find it scary. This is another thing I dont get. Why you would find others scary because they dont look like you, dream or otherwise seems odd. We've probably all dreamt of being an alien too. Part of a healthy imagination and quite frankly big grabby scaly long toes would be rather practical haha. Yet if you can imagine yourself like that, why would you find others scary? In all fairness aside from imagination what reason is there to believe its real? I dont appear to have a splinter colony of rebel Jawas following me around calling me dad, or their alter egos lol.

      Delete
  4. So I know L. Ron Hubbard was an explorer and a spiritualist but wasnt he also a science ficion writer? isnt that disconcerting? I would also like to hear how L. Ron Hubbard came up with 75 million years ago I mean thats a nice whole number thats seems to just come out of no where. and also how did he relize the name of the alien was xenu, was there an ancient text he found or is he just making this up as he went along?

    ReplyDelete
  5. Re: 75 million years ago

    Yes, Hubbard was mainly a writer, not just science fiction but westerns and adventure stories.

    Of course, if you'd asked Hubbard about "75 million years ago" or "Xenu" or any of the many, many other stories he told about the "whole track", he would say he discovered it all through auditing -- remembering it all from his past.

    But, you want to know the truth? From reading various stories by people who worked with him, it becomes obvious he just made it all up, just like the other fiction stories he wrote.

    In fact, he first made up the Xenu story as a movie idea. When that didn't sell, he made it part of his OT levels.

    ReplyDelete
  6. I think it's really funny how my Social psychology teacher already discussed this kind of trend. They start with a foot-in-the-door technique to rein people in, but don't want to push all their ideas onto people. All their ideas might scare off people so they allow people into their ideas bit by bit. That will keep more people interested in Scientology and more willing to make a further commitment to the religion.

    It's a standard persuasion tactic.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. People are far more interested in concepts like mystery and power. Far too much so if you ask me. People who seek something more in this world. Something out of reach, yet the world they seek to claim a hold on is fleeting and changing. People strive for wealth for wealths sake often hoping to find joy yet often only find it when they let go. Greedy people, greedy churches, greedy governments. For what? Like blindfolded ants with no goal and no end purpose. Thats the real trap in this world. The need to cling onto all the wrong things. These seem to be no exception. All this talk of prisons but failing to see their own bars. There never was a prison that couldnt be broken but mans obsession with the idea reflects his own internal conflict and feelings of helplessness.

      Delete
  7. My boss, an "information gatherer" recently accepted the COS as a client. He is providing information on certain non-COS businesses. I don't trust this arrangement. Much of my workload now involves his new client. Should I mentioned my concern to my boss? (he's a non-Scientologist) Should I be concerned for myself? Can he trust the client to keep our business arrangement confidential? I'm concerned that my name will be circulated in areas I don't want it circulating like through the Scientology organization. I was told we went through a background check before receiving the account. Thanks for all your assistance.

    ReplyDelete
  8. Re: "Information gatherer"

    Interesting situation. I really don't have enough information to tell you what to do but I will give you my opinion and slant on it.

    You don't say which entity has hired your company. Just some small, local church could leak information easily but OSA, representing the main dirty-tricks organization under Miscavige, won't leak. They are super, super paranoid. I'll assume the latter and all information, even the time of day, will be confidential.

    Yes, your name would be kept confidential. No one cares much about non-Scientologists who work for the CoS unless those people start visibly harassing and harming others. If all you do is gather information and write reports, no one cares. However, if you became part of some "fair game" activity, physically out there watching or confronting protesters and critics, then you would eventually become known -- and people would care about who you were.

    Take a look at the information out there. Can you find your company's name associated with Scientology? Can you find any "information gatherer" company's name associated? Unless it's "fair game" stuff, nobody much cares.

    ReplyDelete
  9. Thank you for the reply. No, my company's name is nowhere to be found. Yes, it is the OSA wing or branch or whatever it is called. Nothing to do with "fair game" as far as I can tell although I have no idea what the information we are providing can or will be used for. The people I've met seem like great people but I know nothing of the COS and knew nothing of them until we received this account. After doing some reading online I became a little paranoid about what we are doing and who we're doing it for. Thank you for the input and your site is very informative.

    ReplyDelete
  10. You are welcome. The Church of Scientology is very paranoid which is why they have employed your company. They trust absolutely no one without the kind of investigations you provide and, even then, don't trust anyone. I'm sure they are using the data to ensure that any businesses they work with have no critics or ex-Scientologists working for them. Can you imagine?

    ReplyDelete
  11. I am an extremely educated person and I have the foggiest idea of what you people believe even after you lamely try to explain it

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Glad you are reading my blog. However, you seem to have missed the part that "we people" on this blog are not the Scientologists you wish to insult. Actually, I don't know of any Scientologist's blog where you could post your insults. Most don't accept comments.

      I'm an ex-Scientologist and my purpose is to try to explain Scientology and Scientologists to those who want to know what's up. Hopefully, I can keep others from becoming trapped in that cult.

      Delete
    2. A lot of people think they get Scientology, but they've likely been given a lot of confusing snippets of accurate observations.

      Read Hugh Urban's book.

      Start with Hugh's book, especially if you are college educated and appreciate pretty straightforward academic writings. Hugh's not overly theoretical, he writes for the layman.

      Delete
    3. Chuck,
      I think it is quite wonderful that you are giving advice to this person, but I sincerely doubt he will be able to take your advice. Anyone who claims to be an "extremely educated person" but who is unable to read simple sentences on this blog about who we are and what we do here, is undoubtedly not going to be able to read a whole book.

      However, your advice is good and might be of use to someone who isn't so *ahem* "extremely educated".

      Bill

      Delete
    4. Understood, and I've "wasted" plenty of hours doing the impossible, and believe it or not, that old saying about talking with those that have totally opposed views (and all variation of mental obstructions to ever changing their opposed views) is still better than just speaking to the choir.

      My thoughts, are, we, and YOU do a great job, should keep in mind, that we need not spend all our time preaching to the choir, but engage and lay out the Scientology history, to even those that have all sorts of reasons NOT to ever "get" what is laid out for them.

      Keep it up Mr. Bill!

      Delete
    5. Anonymous brother: if you have to tout that you're "extremely educated", it's more likely that you're dumb as rocks.

      Delete
  12. http://ttbook.org/book/hugh-urban-church-scientology

    This interview with Hugh Urban, is my favorite short regular person explanation showing Scientology does indeed believe in a science fictionesque mythology, but we in Scientology didn't take it as myth.

    We took our past lives as real.

    And the Xenu story sounds just as real as any of our other past life experiences, and doubly so does the Xenu story then explain why there is a surplus of bodiless souls that permeate earth today. The Xenu story simply explains why earth has a huge soul surplus.

    The surplus souls hitchhike on our bodies, and leak their own mental troubles into our minds, like hitchhiking mental parasites.

    The Scientology "upper levels" numbered 3, 4, 5, 6 and 7 are the exorcism levels, to rid our bodies of these surplus souls that infest us.

    That this is conceivable, is really a no brainer, if one believes one is one's soul and that other souls, like ghosts, are simply souls without bodies.

    And it is no leap of logic to then agree that one could be being mentally affected by hitchhiking souls on one's body, where the negative mental trauma and crazy ideas can sometimes leak out of the minds of these hitchhiking souls, and be perceived by us!

    Scientology's a pseudo-scientific talk therapy "religion" and it's also a very pseudo-scientific exorcism "religion".

    The "lower levels" of Scientology are talk therapy, which guides a person into finding their past lives trauma and negative memories.

    Then the "upper levels" consist majorly of a whole lotta exorcism of the surplus souls that infest our bodies. The Xenu story just explains the surplus souls being here on earth in such huge volume is all.

    ReplyDelete
  13. Hi Bill, It seems good you are trying to "answer" questions from other personas about Scientology, but it is true what Chuck said. Many -And mean really MANY- people they got Scientology, and sometimes just got a tiny bit. Besides this are 2 very simple points I want to make:
    1.- There is a popular phrase "each head is a world", and it is exactly true! Therefore, each people can understand things very differently from others, and if they have gotten many things wrong alone their lifetime, more! So you got your own idea, and obviously you "tried" to be a Scientologist, which didn´t really accomplished for whatever reasons, but obviously have disagreements, so your viewpoint is not straight. You are comunicating that, no real facts. You are comunicating YOUR VIEWPOINT, not FACTS. To do so, you need to be IMPARTIAL, and as per just looking your comments, you are not. So, people get YOUR VIEWPOINT, not and IMPARTIAL VIEW.
    2.- I´m a Scientologist for almost 20 years, but never leave nor abandon my theological religion, plus have many friends from other diffent religions too. I was a Sea Org Memeber (Lifetime staff) for almost 11 years, and quit as I injured my back and could not continue helping as I wanted and needed. I have read also too many complains and critics to all other religions and I can see that PEOPLE makes mistakes in all of them, but THEY ARE NOT THE RELIGION. Sometimes those mistakes are big, some small, some are simple to correct, some may not be. THERE IS NO RELIGION THAT HAVE OR HAD PEOPLE WHO MADE ERRORS OR MISTAKES AND WERE TAKEN AS IF THEIR RELIGION DID. But many cannot see this and blame the group. true character, integrity and courage to really tell it like it is without influence them with our feelings is needed. So, if that is you you present yourself in this blog, do so for real. Otherwise you will be as fake as those people who just want to discredit something. Still you can be an example. I mark myself as anonymous as I have none of the accounts here requested, but my name is Adriana and Live in a small town in the center of Mexico.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Hi Adriana,

      You have greatly misunderstood and mischaracterized my blog. I did not "try" to be a Scientologist, I was a very, very dedicated Scientologist for over 30 years. That includes over 10 years as a Sea Org member at a number of the high level orgs. I am admin trained and tech trained and am an OT V. I was a "Volunteer Minister", a "Patron of the IAS" and a "Super Power Cornerstone Member", a "New Civilization Builder", bla, bla, bla. Get it? I was about as good a Scientologist as one can be. I suspect I was a much better Scientologist than you are.

      I do not "try" to answer questions, I answer questions. The problem you have with me is that I answer people's questions honestly. I don't hide behind Scientology's "acceptable truths" but am bluntly honest. I deal only with facts as I know them.

      My job is to answer people's questions and ensure that people are aware of the facts before they accept what Scientology wants them to believe.

      I do not and have not attacked Scientologists. Nor do I wish to disparage your beliefs. What you believe is your business and no one else's. You believe what Scientology tells you. You are not allowed to do anything else. That's fine. That is your choice and your life.

      Please, do yourself a favor and don't read this blog. It isn't for you. This blog is for people who actually want honest answers about Scientology.

      Delete
  14. Do Scientologists believe in past lives or that its made up?

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. The short answer is "yes".

      Some Scientologists do believe in past lives. Some Scientologists really don't, but have to pretend they do.

      Delete
  15. Do Scientologists get all their Engrams clear when they go clear? Or when they're OT

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. According to Hubbard, when a person "goes Clear", they no longer have any "engrams".

      That remains pure conjecture, as no one has ever "gone Clear" per Hubbard's original definition in "Dianetics: The Modern Science of Mental Health".

      Every Scientologist who has "gone Clear" remains exactly as they were before Clear - so that's what you get after all that time and money: Absolutely nothing.

      Delete
  16. I have a question...

    Scientology believes that the way to Freedom is through the teachings of L.R.H.; since he's supposedly the end-all be-all of the belief system and apparently no one was truly free until they bought (I mean this literally and figuratively) into his 'teaching'...how on earth did Mankind manage before he was born and had his alleged 'revelations'?

    Thanks in advance.

    ReplyDelete
  17. Scientology & L.Ron are an embarrassment to the USA and to humanity at large. People will believe anything. When I find out that a celebrity is a Scientoligist, I make it a point to avoid their mivies, music, or whatever. It's kinda a bummer-I loved Pulp Fiction.

    ReplyDelete
  18. Are scientologists aware of Hubbards association with black magik, jack parsons, and aliester crowley?

    ReplyDelete

Comments will be moderated. Have patience, I get around to it pretty quick. As a rule of thumb, I won't approve spam, off-topic, trolling or abusive stuff. The rest is usually OK. Yes, you can disagree with me.