Because of various problems with Blogger, I've copied everything as of November 26, 2012 over to WordPress. The new location is Ask the Scientologist. I am not deleting this blog and will still accept comments and answer questions here too, but any new articles will appear at the WordPress location. I apologize if this causes any problems.

Friday, June 10, 2011

How to Talk to a Scientologist

I don't have the conceit that I'm an expert in this subject, but I think I can offer some advice and possibly point to other sources for more information.

This is an important subject.  If a family member or friend has become a Scientologist, you can still talk to them, you can help, but you need to be careful.

You need to educate yourself on what is going on with the Scientologist. There are a number of good people with insight and great advice:
The most important thing for you to know about Scientologists is that Hubbard has installed a minefield around them to “protect” them from outside influences. You need to avoid this minefield if you want to help them.

So the very first rule is: Do not say anything that will cause the Scientologist to disconnect from you. This means you should not say anything critical or negative about Scientology at this stage.  This is one of the mines. If you have already moved in that direction you need to stop.

The reason for this is that you can't do them any good if you can't talk to them. That's why Scientology enforces disconnection so vigorously.

That doesn't mean you can't help them. You can help them leave the cult, you just need to avoid the minefield.

This may be difficult if you are aware of how dangerous and destructive the church is, but you must avoid disconnection to have them remain willing to talk to you.

You need to create a safe atmosphere for the Scientologist to talk and for you to listen. At first, that is the best thing. Do not comment or criticize at this point – just be a sympathetic listener. One of the key elements of listening is staying silent. The less you say, the better. Use “Uh huh?”, “Really?”, “I didn't know that” and anything else that is non-committal but encouraging. Allow the conversation to drift to other subjects but encourage them to talk about their experiences and hopes in Scientology.

Once this safe space has been established, you can ask carefully planned questions. You will know what questions, but along the lines of, "What do you want to accomplish?", "What do you hope for?" You don't have to sarcastically ask the obvious, "... and how's that going for you?" – they will automatically think that themselves. Try to be as non-judgemental as possible. The minute you scoff, criticize, roll your eyes or laugh at the wrong point, they will stop opening up to you.

The Scientologist may ask you “What have you heard about Scientology?” or “What do you think about Scientology?” Do not go into what you have heard or any criticism of Scientology. This puts the Scientologist into “handle the Enemy mode", another of the mines, and then you are no longer talking to the Scientologist but to automatic and carefully coached patter.

Say, instead, “Oh, you know, there are lots of rumors and stuff out there. It isn't important – I want to know about you. What have you been doing?” They may try to persist in their “handling” so you will need to persist as well. “Really, I'm not interested in what others say about Scientology. I just want to hear how you're doing.” Whatever happens, do not let them go into “handle the Enemy mode". That will not help them.

Note that you do not say "I want to hear about Scientology".   That would be very, very wrong.  You want to say something like, "I want to hear about your experiences."  You want them to talk about themselves.

They may go into “recruitment mode". This may be inevitable and you may need some patience to get through this stage. This one may be harder to avoid since you have said you want to hear what they are doing. They will usually start talking about how everything is wonderful and Scientology is perfect and solved all their problems. Do not express any negative attitudes but do not express any interest in doing any Scientology. If they try to press you into taking a course or buying a book just say something like, "I'm doing fine, I'm not interested right now" and leave it at that. Be patient. Trust me, it's as boring to them as it is to you. They will soon move on.

What you are waiting for is for them to relax and just start talking. If you are patient and non-judgemental, this will happen.

You need to understand that the Scientologist already does know that something is very wrong with their church. True, they have no idea how wrong things are, and they don't know how corrupt the leadership is, but they are definitely aware that things are not right. You don't have to convince them of this. You are trying to create a safe space for them to talk about those things.

When they start talking about the stuff they have noticed that is wrong with the Church of Scientology, do not be too enthusiastic in your agreement. Be interested. Say things like “I didn't know that!”, "What happened next?"  This is what you've been waiting for so just listening at this point is vital.  If you immediately bring up all the negative things you know about Scientology, you will undoubtedly push them right back into “handle the Enemy mode" – and destroy any progress you've made.

Note that, at this stage, they will start to disagree with the church but will still consider Scientology to be "wonderful". Don't worry, almost all Scientologists go through this stage. For most, this is just a temporary stage.  Note, also, that attacks against the Scientology belief system aren't very useful.  For now, the Scientologist will start to blame everything on David Miscavige.  Don't worry, this is OK at this stage.

After they have expressed some criticism of their own about the Church of Scientology, they might then ask you what you know. This is an entirely different question than the “handle the Enemy mode" earlier. Now, they really do want to know. Be careful. Do not, at that moment, bring up everything you know about the Church of Scientology, David Miscavige and L. Ron Hubbard – this might trigger “handle the Enemy mode". Answer any specific questions with specific answers and direct them to a specific Internet site. In my opinion, Wikipedia may be the best initial site for them. It really is one of the most balanced presentations about Scientology on the Internet – no ranting and each assertion, both pro- and anti-, must be documented.

If you want to know the attitude you should present to the Scientologist at this stage, read how the Wikipedia information is presented.  Nothing extreme, nothing accusative, some acknowledgement of good aspects while calmly presenting the negatives as well.

Other good sites for newly-awakening Scientologists are those that present Scientologists' "Doubt Formulas".  These are true believer Scientologists who are applying Scientology itself to decide about the Church of Scientology.  Examples: Leaving Scientology, Geir Isene, Michael Tilse, Luis Garcia.  As I've said, these people are using "standard Scientology" to determine that David Miscavige and his Church of Scientology are extremely bad and should not be supported.  This may seem silly to you but, to a Scientologist, these are very persuasive arguments.

At this point, they will probably continue to investigate on their own. They will need your help and support. Your best bet is to continue to listen and help them find good sources of information – keeping in mind that they can't go from Scientologist to non-Scientologist in one leap.

It is normal for them to be very, very afraid of what the church will “to do them”. This is no idle fear.  If they work for a Scientologist, they could lose their job.  If they have friends or family who are Scientologists, they could be disconnected.  Often, they need to keep their doubts secret from other Scientologists.  Assure them that this is quite common and is being done by many Scientologists.

As more and more people leave the Church of Scientology, this becomes less important.

Good luck.
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39 comments:

  1. Excellent post as usual. I wish I had you to talk to personally when I first opened my eyes to my "church." Luckily you provided this blog which helped me immensely. Thanks Bill

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  2. It is a great pleasure to know I have been able to help some people. Makes my day!

    You are welcome.

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  3. Another fantastic post by Just Bill. You provide thorough and excellent guidance for someone trying to help another in an incredibly difficult situation. Thank you for your insight and good advice.

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  4. Excellent advice, Bill - wish I'd had that when I first left the cult.

    I think if this advice were followed, you'd get a 100% Standard Result of "former Scientologist" :)

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  5. I'm working out how to get someone to open their eyes and I like this approach very much.

    I think Steve Hassan's newer book, Releasing the Bonds, comes much closer to describing this type of handling than Combating Cult Mind Control does.

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  6. Thanks for the heads up on Hassan's new book.

    Here is a link for anyone interested: Releasing the Bonds.

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  7. You say it so eloquently and succinctly, once again. You helped me so much and I thank you!!

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  8. @RontheCon

    You are welcome. Thank you.

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  9. Nice post as always Bill. I wish I had this info before I opened my mouth and called it a cult to my now disconnected friend. I will keep informing people of the cult's destructive nature until my friend gets free, and then some.

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  10. not entirely a troll...what about fun diversions?June 16, 2011 at 4:26 PM

    What about sex and booze? Will that lure them away? Would, me.

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  11. @not entirely a troll...

    LOL! Nope. We're talking about "the most ethical people in the world". Sex and booze are pretty much frowned on by Scientology -- except if you're David Miscavige, of course, and then it's full speed ahead.

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  12. @Just Bill r.e. Sex and booze are pretty much frowned on by Scientology -- except if you're David Miscavige . . .

    and that other guy.

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  13. JustBill, what about the old-timers? I think it would be easier to get people with a decade or two in the "church" out of it by mentioning the names of well-known Scis (Rinder, Rathburn, Beatty, Prince, Hawkins - fill in the blank) along with the techniques you discussed in this post. Or possibly mentioning that James Byrnes*, 40+ year SO vet, is now a security guard (!) doing crap jobs like guarding the Winter Wonderland constuction site, etc. That has to touch people - how Scientology uses members for years, then dumps them on the side of the road (and the curb is where Byrnes will wind up, if he doesn't leave or die.) I've never seen another cult (besides some really extreme cases**) treat veteran members so poorly.

    ____________________

    * He threw coffee at the Angry Gay Pope.

    ** Jonestown comes to mind, as does Synanon, but then Chuck Dedrich abused EVERYBODY at Synanon. Lyndon LaRouche's weird "LaRouche Youth Movement" picks on the young and naive....all I can think of when it comes to old people are the TV scamsters like Benny Hinn and that repulsive leech Peter Popoff (who is back after being nailed in the `80s.)

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  14. @Strelnikov

    Re: Mentioning names

    You'd think so, but it doesn't work that way in Scientology. That may be one of the biggest signs that it's a cult.

    There are actual cases where a Scientologist starts waking up and the church finds out and kicks them out -- and their spouse divorces them. They may have been happily married, "deeply in love", but there goes the divorce. Not every Scientologist chooses the church over their spouse, but many have done so.

    You mention one of those "horrible SPs" and the Scientologist will go into "handle the enemy mode". Even if they were once best friends with the "SP".

    Scientologists believe that someone they know as a good, honest, wonderful person can, over night, turn into a raving "SP". It frightens them, but they willingly disconnect and "forget about them".

    No, mentioning the names of any of these SPs is not a good idea in the early stages. In the later stages of waking up, the Scientologist will run into these names themselves and realize the truth.

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  15. Oh, crap I forgot about the "Invasion of the Body Snatchers" element of SPism....I was just thinking that anybody who has been in Scientology for more than 5 years has noticed that the thing seems to get smaller, that the mission or org s/he is involved with seems to be empty all the time, and if they were in for 15-20 years the fact that so many Big Wheels have been walking away has to be making these veteran members wonder just what the Hell is going on.* Or can they cover that with Orwellian "doublethink" and "crimestop"? (Not being snarky.)
    ___________________

    * They could jokingly call it "Shrinky-Dink Tech."

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  16. @Strelnikov

    Well, that's why I say that you don't have to tell Scientologists that something is wrong with their church -- they already do know that.

    They are suppressing and ignoring all those niggly thoughts because they must be in error.

    The road out for them is to finally stop ignoring all the wrongs that they already know about. Which is actually the key element of my article.

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  17. My two cents about mentioning the names of top executives who have left. I agree with Just Bill, it isn't effective.
    That is because part of the programming is to believe that anyone who leaves has crimes. All those top executive must have crimes and are not to be trusted. That is how a true believer is likely to process that information. Not worth the risk.

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  18. I just posted your blog on my FB profile. Hoping that it will help spread the word of how dangerous this "Church" is. Blech!!! Thanks so much for your intelligent communications on this terrible subject. Roz

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  19. Great post as always. I remember when I got into Scientology, the first break in my "Truman Show" was that it took 2 years before I could say I had a true friend in the group. I think Scientologists know that your friend next to you might be declared tomorrow, so you don't get too close. It was a sad reality that never changed in my eyes.

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  20. Hi Bill. Can you offer any insight or advice on how to talk about or address the "positive" or "wonderful" things supposedly happening through Scientology. When my partner comes home all starry-eyed and nearly moved to tears after the latest event and tells me about how drug crime in Columbia has dropped by 90% because a powerful general there has been implementing the Way to Happiness with all of the military and sending his top people down to the Freewinds when it docks, or that Indonesia has closed half it's prisons after implementing Criminon system-wide, what do I say? I've tried, "Wow, that sounds really significant, why don't we hear or read anything about that in the news?" But I just get the answer, "Because it's a good thing"--i,e, there's the worldwide media conspiracy to squelch any news of good in the world. (Which I have to admit sometimes seems to be true--the news in general is pretty heavy on gloom and doom headlines versus inspirational stories.) But can stories like these possibly be true with nobody legitimate reporting on them? Then again, how could the management just make it up when it seems as if it could be easily disproved? I certainly can't find any news of it anywhere but on the Scientology sites. How on earth do you counter the news of all these amazing positive wins or sow a seed of doubt without coming off as just another cynical naysayer whose opinion is easily dismissed? I know it is my partner's belief in this ultimate good and desire to be part of something that's changing the world for the better that keeps him hooked. Helping someone see the abuses and bad things they themselves have experienced seems far more likely than countering these fairy stories of massive positive change in the troubled parts of the world all due to LRH and his amazing tech. Any insights?

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  21. @Megs

    Re: Fairy stories

    Basically, you can't talk facts with a Scientologist. Not ever. They believe and that belief is senior to reality in all cases.

    The basic fairy story is Hubbard's Great Anti-Scientology Conspiracy. That is the "reason why" none of Scientology's good news is seen outside of the bubble. That is why all the bad news "is false".

    If you went to Columbia and showed your partner the actual facts, the real situation, it would all be discounted as lies -- because of the Great Conspiracy.

    Because Scientology does not actually produce any of the promised results, Scientologists all latch onto any good news and believe that, whatever it was, it was "caused by Scientology".

    "Correlation is not causation" is not a concept that Scientologists are going to get.

    Miscavige's Big Bogus Events use this mechanism for all their "good news". And he uses the Great Anti-Scientology Conspiracy to excuse all the bad news.

    I've said to True Believers, "With the Internet, with all the blogs, forums and alternate news sources, someone else would certainly be talking about all this. Why aren't they?" But it didn't seem to make a dent in their belief.

    Not all is lost, however. They will believe it when it happens to them or to friends and family. They will see the lies, crimes, abuses and fraud when it directly affects them. That is when they will start to wake up.

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  22. Since the only Scientologists I know are ex-Scientologists, and I will probably never talk to one I find this post fascinating and invaluable for its insights into the Scientologist reactive mind.

    The emphasis on experience is important, but it is extremely difficult to get scilons to talk about their actual experience. They mostly speak and write infomercial-speak. It's like talking to Wahhabi Muslims.

    One of the strengths of Janet Reitman's book is that she found a few young scilons who would speak about their actual experience.

    As an activist my main concern is how to engage the interest of the public.

    I had a conversation with a respected Roman Catholic theologian who asked me, "Why haven't I heard about this and why should I care?"

    The best answers I have come up with are: You haven't heard because OSA has intimidated every sector of society into silence. You should care because no one else has been.

    I am not so sure these are effective responses. Another challenge is that there are so many facets of evil in the cult it is hard to know where to begin.

    I want to affirm your suggestion of using Wikipedia as a source of info. I tell people that the first place to go is to Scientology Controversies, which addresses all the alarming issues about the cult, and then follow links as interest leads.

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  23. JB, how about if I talked to a Scientologist this way . . .

    “I’m sure you can see the value of proof in this world. We need proof that a product works as advertized, in a court of law we need proof before we can convict someone, we need proof that a pilot can fly the 747 we are getting on, we need proof that a person can drive a car before we let them behind the wheel, we need proof that doctors know medicine before we allow them to practice. Any kind of certification, licence or diploma is simply proof and proof is absolutely necessary in this world.

    In the same way Scientologists need to prove they have all the supernatural paranormal powers they claim they have. After all didn’t Hubbard use Clear and OT powers to sell Scientology and Dianetics.

    If a Clear or OT can:
    - communicate over long distances through telepathy or remote viewing
    - influence matter, energy, space and time using telekinesis or psycho-kinesis
    - do supernatural healing, predict future events
    - read minds, remember past lives and be total cause over MEST
    then shouldn’t they be able to prove it?

    Does Scientology produce these abilities? If so prove it, demonstrate them. That isn’t unreasonable or “entheta.” If someone claims they have an ability they should be able to demonstrate it. You know the old expression, "Put your money where your mouth is."

    If you have the ability to view things remotely, then tell me what’s in the next room. If you have the ability to move objects then levitate this ashtray. If you can read minds, then tell me what I’m thinking. Of course, the minute you suggest this, Scientologists say, “Asking for proof is an invalidation of an OT,” or “I don’t do parlor tricks,” or “That’s a hidden standard.” No, it’s not a hidden standard. It’s in scores of Advance Magazines and LRH references. It’s not hidden when you’re promoting it. It’s only hidden when you’re asked to prove it.

    Hubbard instructed the “Clears and OTs” not to show their abilities because it would make it harder for others to go up the bridge. Wouldn’t it do the opposite? Or, perhaps there are no Clear and OT paranormal abilities and the instructions are there to stop you from finding that out.

    Imagine going into a bar and trying to pick up women by telling them you have a Corvette. When they ask to see it you say it’s in the shop. Every time they ask you say it’s in the shop. In fact it’s always in the shop. What would these women think about you? Here is a newspaper headline you’ll never see, “Psychic wins Lottery!” Prove it or you end up looking like either a liar or a fool.

    At the very least, if Clears and OTs had these magical powers they would be richer, more successful and happier than most people? Are they? It seems to me that Clears and OTs are not any different from ordinary people. They wear glasses and have the same money, health, and relationship problems that everyone else has. So it seems to me that Clears and OTs are not “surviving” any better than the average person, proving that these abilities do not exist in the real world.

    So you need to ask yourself a question, do Scientology processes reliably produce supernatural or paranormal abilities in people?”

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  24. @Dave

    Everything you say is perfectly true and your arguments are well stated and irrefutable.

    Therefore, it wouldn't work on a Scientologist.

    They would stop listening right there at the start, where you use the forbidden word "proof". They would immediately recognize that you were a Suppressive Person, attacking their "religion".

    They would simply not hear the rest of your statements. I'm serious, that's exactly what would happen. One of the mines that Hubbard installed in all Scientologists is that "demand for proof" is a suppressive act. Hubbard's famous quote "What's true for you is what is true" means that their belief is senior to reality.

    When you start speaking about reality, proof and truth, Scientologists mentally shut down and will not listen to one more word from you.

    Sorry, it simply wouldn't work.

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  25. Everything you say is perfectly true and your arguments are well stated and irrefutable. Therefore, it wouldn't work on a Scientologist.

    Absolutely hilarious! Thanks for that Bill.

    To my mind the "demand for proof" is anything but a suppressive act. Proof is an affirmation of reality. On the other hand, "What's true for you is what is true" is delusional.

    If belief is senior to reality; then fantasy is senior to fact. When you and start ignoring fact and living in fantasy, you slowly begin to wander off the main road.

    Living in a figment of your imagination significantly reduces your chances of survival.

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  26. @Dave

    Well, of course "demand for proof" is not bad, it's what logic, knowledge and progress are all built on.

    "Living in a figment of your imagination significantly reduces your changes of survival". Couldn't have said it better myself.

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  27. @JB

    Agreed! The following is a cautionary tale proving that magical thinking can be both counterproductive and dangerous.

    Yanagiryuken is a delusional Kiai-Aikido Master who claims he can defend himself using supernatural “chi” power. WOOWEE! He says he has never defeated in 200 fights and offered $5,000 to any MMA fighter who would dare to take him on. Well, as it always does, reality came a-knockin!

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gEDaCIDvj6I

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  28. Bill would you please please explain the above video in Scientology terms.

    - Was the MMA fighter only out of agreement with Yanagiryuken?
    - Was there a clash of "realities" but no one true reality?
    - Which was the true reality?
    - Is it all subjective?
    - How does ARC fit into this?
    - Obviously the "reality" of Yanagiryuken was not in sync with the reality of the MMA fighter but were both realities valid?

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  29. @Dave

    Re: Yanagiryuken vs MMA fighter

    If Yanaqiryuken was a Scientologist and the MMA fighter was the truth about Hubbard and Scientology then...

    The Scientologist would never have challenged anyone to a fight. The Scientologist would have stayed in the nice little world (shown at the start of that video) where everything validated his beliefs.

    The situation would never have come up with a Scientologist -- because they know better than to ask reality to show up.

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  30. For those who enjoyed seeing the delusional Kiai-Aikido Master given a dose of reality, here it is again from a different angle.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7jf3Gc2a0_8&feature=related

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  31. Re: Yanagiryuken vs. MMA fighter

    The situation would never have come up with a Scientologist--because they know better than to ask reality to show up.

    Reality always shows up whether you ask it or not.

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  32. Re: Reality

    LOL! Yes, reality does tend to do that.

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  33. thisisthemiddleofinfiniteApril 11, 2012 at 2:11 AM

    From the Bottom of my heart(to the top), thank you. Everyone's information and insight has been invaluable. Not just justbill, but all. Everyone,Jenna's ocb,lerma,exsci, and plethora of others. Fiance' left for SO recently. Because of you all I've got "Releasing The -duh", "Inside -duh" as well as the infamous W.O.F. on the way.
    Surreal actually. After all these years of up the grade and down for us, a couple days is all it took to become so much closer to the truth.

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  34. You directed me to this page after I sent you a question asking if there was any hope of salvaging my relationship which is beng destroyed by scientology. Your reply was frank and affirmed what I already suspected. I thank you for your honesty and for the insight into how to talk to a scientologist.Sadly I fear I have lost my love to this Cult but I will use the knowledge I have gained from you and other such sites to try to help others in a similar situation and in this way will start to heal my grief by helping others. Thank you for your integrity and courage.

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    Replies
    1. I am so very sorry that this happens. This is what Scientology is all about: Thought control, enforced agreement and the creation of Enemies Everywhere. I believe that helping others in similar situations can be a great healer.

      Good luck!
      Bill

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    2. This blog is exactly what I have been looking for... My sister's husband of almost 20 years started "dabbling" in Scientology through a dentist colleague of his in Central Florida. This has continued in varying amounts until today. Thankfully, my sister has ZERO interest in this "ORG", albeit numerous attempts at her solicitation by her husband and his "friends". Is it possible for them to continue to be married, him achieve "clear", while she is never on board? Over the last year, it seems that the same arguments and judgements towards her create a recurrent ultimatum regarding joining... Its currently tearing the family apart. Personally, I have refrained from speaking to him, mostly due to the likelihood of him labeling me as a "SP", and the conversation would be over, possibly forever. The initial entry on this page has outlined ways for me to listen to him. My sister is completely beside herself right now, and just wants her high school sweetheart and family back. Is there a specific type of counseling she needs to seek for this to be possible? Obviously, I am very concerned, both for my sister and my brother-in-law. Any further suggestions would help. Btw, when my sister asks what he is doing at the Org, he claims he's just sitting in a room "reading". Is that possible? If so, I would like to invite him to the local library instead of the Org, seems like it could cause less damage to their family, including their 3 children. I'm extremely distressed about this, and have a negative outlook regarding the future of them being together, especially with my sister's vehement non-participation in Scientology. Thanks in advance for your advice.

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    3. Re: Married to a Scientologist

      This wasn't a problem a decade ago. A Scientologist could be married to a non-Scientologist as long as the non-Scientologist never said anything bad about Scientology.

      Such a relationship was tolerated.

      Not any more.

      Since that time, the Church of Scientology has come under heavy attack, its crimes, abuses and fraud have been exposed -- and even proven in court. It has lost a majority of its membership and is still losing members. Its income has crashed. Its churches are empty and even closing.

      The Church of Scientology is a cult and it has the cult mentality: When attacked, when exposed, build a bigger wall! Cults always have a "them vs. us" mentality. When their crimes are exposed, the whole world becomes "The Enemy".

      The easy days of grudging tolerance of non-Scientologists is gone and your poor sister's family is one of the casualties of that change. Scientology doesn't care about families or love or children, it only cares about money and keeping their membership from learning the truth and leaving.

      Because of this, there can only be two possible ways of keeping this family together: Either your brother-in-law distances himself from the church, or your sister becomes a Scientologist. From your description, neither seems likely.

      No decent person would break up a family like this. Your brother-in-law could resolve this problem by committing to his family against the pressure of the church. Is he strong enough? Can he get his priorities straight? Or is he too far under the control of Scientology?

      Unfortunately, there is very little your sister can do.

      She could try saying, "I will support your involvment in Scientology and say nothing if you will stop trying to get me to join. I am happy the way I am." This might work -- but the church is getting desperate and that might not end the pressure on everyone.

      If that works, it still doesn't take the children out of danger. He will try to recruit them, if he hasn't already. He will also send every penny to the chuch and incur heavy debts which will put the whole family at risk. Unless your sister has equal control over finances, this could put the family into bankruptcy.

      This is Scientology and it is very ugly.

      I wish I could give you better advice.

      Bill

      PS: When your brother-in-law says he is "sitting in a room, reading" he probably means he is on course, learning Scientology stuff. I'm not sure why he doesn't want to admit that.

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    4. For a person married to a Scientologist, who definitely wants to keep the relationship together, here is an agreement I suggest:

      1. The non-Scientologist agrees to say nothing about Scientology and the Scientologist agrees to stop trying to recruit the non-Scientologist.
      2. No one will incur any new debt without the full agreement of the other. As soon as possible, the family should become debt-free. See The Golden Age of Integrity Drills for what the Scientologist should know about debt according to Hubbard.
      3. The Scientologist will not attempt to recruit the children until they are adults and can make up their own minds.
      4. The family shall not be neglected or ignored. School events, vacations, holidays will be with the family.
      5. The family comes first.

      Anyway, that's my suggestion for an agreement between a Scientologist and non-Scientologist in a relationship. Modify it as appropriate.

      Bill

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  35. I have read a lot of your posts, but this I believe is by far the most usefull. Thank you very much for writing this!

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Comments will be moderated. Have patience, I get around to it pretty quick. As a rule of thumb, I won't approve spam, off-topic, trolling or abusive stuff. The rest is usually OK. Yes, you can disagree with me.