Because of various problems with Blogger, I've copied everything as of November 26, 2012 over to WordPress. The new location is Ask the Scientologist. I am not deleting this blog and will still accept comments and answer questions here too, but any new articles will appear at the WordPress location. I apologize if this causes any problems.

Saturday, July 30, 2011

Is It Over Yet?

Sometimes, when I am reading a novel or watching a movie, I realize that I simply don't care about any of the characters.  Are they going to succeed?  Are they going to fail?  Who cares?

If I find I don't care, I'll put that book down or walk out of that movie.  Why waste my time?  There are too many excellent books and excellent movies for me to waste my time trudging through a boring one.

And so we get to the Glorious Battle between the mighty Church of Scientology and the bold rebels of the Independent Movement -- with the fate of "every man, woman and child for the next endless trillions of years" at stake.


Really boring.

Really, really boring.

It appears that all the characters in this badly written drama are very excited, worried, angry and whatnot but I don't care -- and I don't see how anyone not directly involved cares one tiniest bit.

Certainly I care about all the victims of the Church of Scientology, but that isn't what they are fighting about.  They are fighting over control of Scientology.

Is it important to "every man, woman and child" on this planet?  No, of course not.

Is the fate of the Church of Scientology hanging in the balance?  Nope.  The church has been destroyed and all you see is the after-image after the implosion.  The old image of the powerful and dangerous Church of Scientology has been shattered by David Miscavige's recent stupid, immature and idiotic orders to his mindless followers.  It's a bad joke.

Is the fate of Scientology itself, hanging in the balance?  Again, nope.  All the facts and all the failures of Hubbard and Scientology are well known.   Scientology doesn't produce "homo novis", it doesn't solve any of the world's problems and it isn't a miraculous solution to anything.  People may still use Scientology but, since Scientology doesn't produce anything significant, its continued existence is of no importance.

So we have people of no particular importance battling over an insignificant "church" and an ineffective "tech" with nothing of any significance hanging in the balance.

I've walked out of better movies than this.


  1. Oh, come on, Bill. There's such a rush of Schaudenfreude in watching this .

    Seriously, tho, I read that many orgs are seeing Asian recruits. I can see where the idea of a perfect 'technology' ( and the chance to emigrate) might appeal to a smart young Developing World type.

    Why doesn't the damn thing just collapse? Many other cults have. (How many people have ever heard of the "Universal Friend" of upper New York State?) Anonymous has been raising merry hell for what, 3 years now? You'd think the word would get out.


  2. @Sheepherder

    Asian recruits? I haven't heard of that, but I sincerely doubt it is anything like "many orgs". Until I see some more evidence, I'll continue to doubt that story.

    I have heard that Scientology is gaining recruits in areas with little or no Internet. But, of course, that means little or no money, so no one can take Scientology services there. Those new recruits would be exclusively Introductory Course people.

    Speaking of getting the word out, Anonymous certainly did get the word out, as did many other people. I think anyone connected to the world (books, movies, newspapers, magazines, Internet) does know exactly what Scientology is.

    Any news of "Scientology expanding" would be a lie.

  3. It is interesting that you would bring this up. Just the other day, I measured the Alexa measurement of both Scientology and a leading Independent against The Daily Puppy. Really, it is interesting to see that the Daily Puppy gets at least 3 times the traffic as the above 2 sites. As they fight on with each other, I enjoy the playfulness of a cute dog.

  4. This will be a profound read someday for those who don't get it yet. But for me, it's yet another outstanding article from Ask The Scientologist.

    Thank you for helping keep things in perspective.

  5. "dismantling the cult in its current form" takes awhile yo.

    Anonymous Delivers. Just you wait... but geeze, give us atleast 5 years to bring the bitch down to her knees begging for mercy before you expect the almighty "significance" your expect swinging inthe breeze ;)

    [just kidding ya Bill - still <3 ya man]

  6. I know what you mean. But I do enjoy your articles and what you have to say. I hope this doesn't mean you are going to quit writing about scientology, as did Jeff Hawkins and Alonzo?

  7. What I find interesting is that DM has absolutely no influence whatsoever outside the cult. Reputation of Scientology is in such shambles that even with all his money he seems unable to really hurt badly anyone any more. He can keep the con going forever (with fewer and fewer people in) because of all the money, but he can't do anything else. Scientology that smashed Cult Awareness Network or set up Paulette Cooper is gone.

    The internet seems to have played the most important role here, but I am not sure it was the only factor. DM's insanity was also important factor but he did some things right (like recruiting Cruise and shutting down CAN). Where there other things in the last 10 years that contributed to collapse I am not aware of?


  8. Basically I am asking where there other factors beside DM's insanity and Internet that made Scientology lose it's influence? Maybe they went too far with framing people so judges and police simply stopped believing them? Or maybe there is just limit to how much BS you can sell to people before they just leave?


  9. @Mary McConnell

    Thank you for your kind words.


  10. @AnonLover

    Trust me, I, as much as anyone, appreciate the fantastic job that Anonymous -- kind-hearted people who just jumped in when they saw they could help -- has done.

    :-) Love ya' back.

  11. @Just Bruce

    This article is primarily about the drama down in South Texas. This explains why I don't get involved and don't comment about the M vs M "battle".

    Other than that, I'll keep writing and I'll always be available to answer questions. Well, "always" is a bit much -- for the foreseeable future I'll be available.

  12. I think this fight is about control over the money the organization commands. Even though it's not about the victims, I believe it helps them in a big way.

    As such, I can't help but be excited when a big donor or other diehard declares their independence on Marty's site. And though the particulars of the conflict exude lameness, I enjoy some of those tidbits too. It all gives me hope.

    I'm always happy to see a new post on your blog!

  13. Re: Factors in the collapse of the Church of Scientology

    It would take too long to list out all the factors. The primary factor in the destruction of the church is L. Ron Hubbard.

    He lied about almost everything. He lied about his life, he lied about his research, he lied about his results, he lied about what he did and what others did, and, well, just about everything.

    The church and Scientology are founded on lies. Most of the leadership know this, which is why lying, covering up and suppressing free speech is such an important part of Scientology.

    It was only a matter of time before the lies were exposed, confirmed and documented. Especially as Scientology created so many enemies.

    So the primary and basic cause of Scientology's destruction has to be Hubbard. The rest -- David Miscavige, the Internet, Anonymous and so on -- follow automatically from Hubbard's lies.

    At least, that's how I see it.

  14. Keep up the good work, Just Bill. You may be disinterested in the ultimate outcome, but please keep providing your insightful posts and commentary. I've learned a lot from your words.

  15. Re: Disinterested

    Thanks. Note that I am disinterested in the outcome of the battle between Miscavige and Marty.

    I'm still interested in the slow-motion train wreck of the Church of Scientology. Can't stop watching.

  16. The story of Scientology itself can be of interest to anyone, because in my humble opinion this was not the last time when a gifted liar appears and tries to convince the public that he has the true, efficient and scientific method of initiation, of getting to higher realms of existence etc. And I am afraid that the next guru will be more cunning then Hubbard was.

  17. Emerenz, Hubbard made critical mistake in offering tangible results. Even if his rationalizations for not displaying them where brilliant (demanding proof of anything is a supressive act, as JustBill noted) people will always get suspicious when results fail to materialize.

    With advances of the Internet it has become much easier to sniff out the fraud. The next guru will have to be much, much more careful with what he promises to people.


  18. Hi Python,

    you have a good point there.
    About results, let's take for example E. Tolle, as a popular contemporary teacher.I think his method is practical and efficient to defeat at least partly our ego, even though "living in the present moment" does not solve every problem. I think Tolle is sincere in what he says, even if he doesn't look like a very happy person. He helped me with his teachings.
    I think the new Hubbard-like guru, who will diligently try to mislead us, will also offer solutions that may partly be efficient to our woes, but as he will be a liar, his methods will inevitably lead to a reforcement of the ego, just as Hubbards method tends to produce egoist (efficiency! control!) even out of humble and laid-back people.

  19. I think there's some value in the battle between W.I.S.E. and the independents: CoS seeks public acceptance by clamoring about "religious freedom", and claims their critics are "bigots".

    Their actions against independents (as against David Mayo et al. before) indicates they are not exactly respectful of "religious freedom" themselves.

  20. When Scientologists finally realize that the thing they believed in and devoted their life to is false, the readjustment period can be tough. It can also be great. I have found "When Things Fall Apart" by Pema Chodron very helpful. I have found therapy with an "evil" psychologist very helpful. The process of examining and deleting SCN ideas, attitudes, view points seems endless. I keep examining and deleting them. I think of them as weeds. And with each false, unworkable idea spotted and deleted, a little more life returns to my life.
    I have a great roommate who is a "dumb, stupid Wog" who is wonderful at helping me spot my Scientology speak and who encourages me to reframe my thoughts in a "join the rest of the world" way. It is very refreshing to find out that "dumb, stupid Wogs" are not necessarily so and that my joy and happiness does not depend on me getting back in the "chair"; does not depend on me doing my next level.
    The cure is at times painful but life outside the tent is a whole lot nicer. Freedom is just another word for throwing off the chains.
    And Bill I really enjoy your posts. Your site has helped me see the light on more than one ocassion. Keep up the good work and thank you.

  21. @Epic Sword Guy

    Quite true. Everything the Church of Scientology accuses others of is, in simple truth, what they, themselves, are guilty of: Religious intolerance, hatred, bigotry, lying, opposition to religious freedom, the whole lot.

  22. @on.the.edge.lately

    Thanks for your kind comments.

    I found two things really helped me after I left Scientology.

    The first was to never use any Scientology words or concepts in my life. This is a bit hard at first, but it speeds the process of weeding out all the false Scientology concepts from my mind.

    The second was writing Ask the Scientologist. I promised myself to be absolutely truthful, no matter how uncomfortable it was for me. I had to confront what we Scientologists really believed, why we believed it -- and what the actual truth was.

    That was tremendously helpful for me personally because it dismantled all the uninspected "facts" I had accepted as true.

    Nice comments, thanks.

  23. "People may still use Scientology but, since Scientology doesn't produce anything significant, its continued existence is of no importance."

    Well, it seems still of great importance to you.

    "So we have people of no particular importance battling over an insignificant "church" and an ineffective "tech" with nothing of any significance hanging in the balance."

    Is that including you?

    "I've walked out of better movies than this"
    Really? So what prevents you to walk out of this one?

  24. @anonymous

    Re: Various angry statements

    You seem to be angry with my article, but you didn't say what upset you so much.

    I made it clear, at least I thought I made it clear, that I am talking about the "battle" between David Miscavige and Marty Rathbun.

    I am not involved, I am not interested and I did "walk out" of this one. I hope that clears up your misunderstanding of what I said.

    Now, please explain why you are so upset with what I said.

  25. One question: It is known outside of the cult that DM himself isn't an OT8. How is this embarrassing fact explained inside the cult? Do they even know?


  26. If I may step in and answer for Anonymous:

    "If Scientology is so insignificant, ineffective and unimportant, then why do you keep attacking it?"

  27. @99½

    Re: Speaking for the angry person

    Wow! You really do get those two things confused. I think you're doing that on purpose.

    Scientology, the belief system, is pretty insignificant, unimportant and ineffective. It doesn't worry me and whatever happens to it isn't of much interest to me.

    The Church of Scientology is an evil organization that lies, commits abuse, crimes and fraud. I consider all who work to expose those things to be heroes and I will continue to support them. People have been hurt by the Church of Scientology and people are being harmed right now. That is worthy of continued exposure and whistle-blowing.

    Please try to differentiate between these two things. They actually are only marginally related these days.

  28. @Python

    Re: David Miscavige isn't OT8

    I am sure that all Scientologists completely believe that Miscavige is OT8 -- if not OT15. They just don't know.

    They also don't know that he is a failed Briefing Course student who hasn't studied, audited or been audited for decades. They just don't know.

    I think it's transferred from their image of Hubbard, who never announced his achievements of any levels either.

  29. Thanks Bill, I should have known better than to ask such a silly question. Of course they are lying about everything!

    Thanks for satisfying my curiosity


  30. Dear Just Bill,
    I agree completely that learning to speak good ol' English again is an important part of recovery. I struggled with that a lot at first and realized how entangled my perception of the world was with the language. One of the things I did was to take a creative writing class and this helped. It reintroduced me to the language of the heart, rather than of efficiency and control. I still slip up, but my new non-SCN friends are a big help. They'll give me "the look" when I slip up.
    I had a new realization today that I wanted to share. Another way that Hubbard's view of life is not constructive. He views man's struggle as one of trying to avoid pain and reach for pleasure. It sounded so real when I read it. Yes, the answer was to get rid of all our pain, then we will be happy. And how convenient that SCN sells this product of getting rid of all your pain.
    But alsas, it isn't the answer. It is far better in my opinion to learn to understand and accept your pain. It is the stuff life, of literature, of film of our shared human experience. It is the stuff of compassion and empathy. It is a false notion that a happy life can be attained by erasing your pain.
    And now onto a completely different point. There is one point about which we disagree. I think SCN has some value. And here is what I mean. Let's say you were afraid of snakes, I believe this fear could be audited out and you would be a little freer and a little saner as a result.
    That said, I completely agree that the awareness levels are a con, a very sad unexcusable, unconscienable con. People are led to believe for example that they a Communications Completion and can communicate with anyone about anything. And the observable fact is that this is not true. But they believe it and would fight to the death to defend this. It is very sad. I can not even describe what this weird thing is that happens to people--hypnotism, brainwashing...? I don't know but it is sooooo creepy, so deceptive, so sneaky. It is just weird. It happened to me and I still don't get it. Was it a worm or a virus? But my mind became mush for a very long time and I believed I was becoming smarter and more able. Good God almighty!

  31. @on.the.edge.lately

    Thanks for your comments.

    The language thing is very important and, at first, can be quite difficult. It's good to have friends to help you kick the habits.

    We actually don't disagree too much on the value of Scientology. I always try to be careful when I speak of Scientology's results -- or lack thereof. I always say that "Scientology does not ever produce the miraculous results promised."

    I do not say Scientology is completely useless, just that it never lives up to its very explicit, big promises. I, myself, have definitely experienced some benefits from Scientology, especially some of the lower level stuff -- which you refer to yourself.

    And that is part of the trap. They pull you in with that lower-level stuff that seems to work or actually does work.

    "Good God almighty!" indeed.

  32. Just Bill, I am wondering when was the last time CoS managed to really harm someone who isn't their member? They seem totally ineffective against anonymous. Wise Beard Man said somewhere that they had managed to put someone in jail for making a joke on the internet about launching a rocket at their dessert compound. They did it circa 2004 (I could be wrong)when the War on Terror was still in full swing and people where afraid.

    Is there anything more recent? I ask because they really seem broken and ineffective right now. And I honestly can't see how any police force or court in the world can take them seriously any more.

    And your blog definitely rocks. I have learned a lot from you.

    One more thing: you seem intelligent (yes I DO mean it) and I sometimes think that highly Intelligent people are more likely to get into the cult than not-so-intelligent people. Because high intelligence also makes a person very good at inventing elaborate excuses when things don't work or don't make sense (just take a look at loads and loads of book on christian apologetic as an example number one.) Average people are more likely to just give up and admit that they are wrong.

    I really sometimes think that the smarter you are, the better you can be at self deception. Do you think I am right?


  33. @Python

    I haven't heard of the Church of Scientology being particularly effective in years. Certainly they still have their lawyers, their PIs and their faithful but I haven't heard of any significant damage to anyone.

    Their heart just doesn't seem to be in it. I think they are starting to notice that it always backfires against them and they don't have any other weapons. Ron said "do this" and, if that fails, they have no other instructions.

    As for your connection of intelligence and self-deception, I hadn't thought of that before. Perhaps you are right, I'd have to think a bit more. Certainly hope and a certain gullibility enter in.


  34. I'm enjoying the slow motion train wreck, too, Bill. ;)

  35. Just to be clear: being a pretty smart (though no genius) person myself, I have nothing against intelligence. We need smart people. I am just discussing possible weaknesses that people who are used to thinking rather than testing things may have.


  36. It is refreshing to read your blog, without the undertone of "fate of the whole planet at stake" of the Scientology believer. Or, of the Scientology reformer...we must work, work, work, to find what works about it, and "celebrate" LRH for that.

    One of the reasons I find the characters interesting, is people like you. That is, people who were believers but woke up completely, are logical and fair, and see many things outsiders miss.

    One aspect of the internet has changed, is the time period between new believing members, and the time it takes for them to wake up and get out. I've seen this with only a few young people, but I'm expecting more of it. I'm also expecting people to be madder about the money and time they spent.

    The drama is in the story of the Internet vs. Scientology. One is open, free, with little control and the other is closed, expensive, with a lot of control. They are clashing.

    One thinks it is monumentally important "technology" and is the only way to save the planet. The other IS an unstoppable technology that is transforming society, and will change the world.

    Scientology is antiquated BS, a mind trap to get people's money. The Internet is something new under the sun.


  37. @Wok

    Very, very true. The Internet has changed everything.

    Smart organizations have changed and adapted to the new realities. Scientology has not and cannot and so it is dying.


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