However, something the troll said struck me. This Scientologist was insisting that the ex-Scientologist whistle-blowers had "betrayed Scientology". And, because of this "betrayal" the Church of Scientology was "justified" in its very vicious, unethical and illegal attacks against them.
"Betrayed?" Really? That's pretty harsh. What, exactly, did the whistle-blowers actually do?
They told the truth.
The fact that stories of abuse and lies are totally true was confirmed by the Church of Scientology itself in the Headley trials. The significance of the trials was summarized quite nicely in the article on Examiner.com: Scientology wins legal victory, loses public image war.
So, in spite of the fact that the whistle-blowers told the truth, they had, according to the Church of Scientology, betrayed the church!
This sounded familiar. Where had I heard something like that before?
A little research and I found this:
The Blue Code of Silence (also known as the "Blue Shield") is an unwritten rule among police officers in the United States not to report on another colleague's errors, misconducts or crimes. If questioned about an incident of misconduct involving another officer (e.g. during the course of an official inquiry), while following the Blue Code of Silence, the officer being questioned would claim ignorance of another officer's wrongdoing. [Wikipedia]That's close, but not exactly it.
Then I found an even closer match:
Omertà is the mafia code of silence and secrecy that forbids mafiosi from betraying their comrades to the authorities. The penalty for transgression is death, and relatives of the turncoat may also be murdered. For instance, a mafioso will not call the police when he is a victim of a crime. He is expected to take care of the problem himself. [Wikipedia]There it is! That's what the Scientology troll was talking about. That is Scientology's definition of "betrayal".
Compare the above definition of omertà with the following excepts from Introduction to Scientology Ethics under the "High Crimes" section. ("High Crimes" are the very, very worst crimes in Scientology):
It is a high crime if a Scientologist does:Note that absolutely none of these "High Crimes" say anything about whether the accusations against Scientology or a Scientologist are true or not. Scientologists may not report any crimes by other Scientologists to the police.
- "Public disavowal of Scientology"
- "Public statements against Scientology or Scientologists"
- "Testifying hostilely before state or public inquiries into Scientology"
- "Bringing civil suit against any Scientology organization or Scientologist"
- "Writing anti-Scientology letters to the press or giving anti-Scientology or anti-Scientologist data to the press."
- "Delivering up the person of a Scientologist ... to the demands of civil or criminal law."
Scientologists are required to handle it all internally, within the church.
"But," you are asking, "what if the church doesn't handle it? What if it is the leaders of the Church of Scientology who are committing the crimes and abuse? What if the Church of Scientology blames you for being a 'victim' and punishes you and lets the perpetrator go unpunished?"
Makes no difference. Scientologists may not report any crimes by other Scientologists to the police.
Take a look at these ex-Scientologists committing "High Crimes" by reporting Jan Eastgate (Senior Scientologist and President of CCHR) for covering up child abuse. Yes, according to the Church of Scientology, Jan Eastgate is a "good Scientologist" and those who reported her crimes have "betrayed Scientology".
Does this sound like omertà? Does this sound like a criminal organization "protecting its own"?
Time and time again, the Church of Scientology protects the criminals within its organization and attacks the whistle-blowers.
No matter how evil and corrupt a Scientologist is, you may not report him or her to the police. Ever. You may not sue them. You may not speak of their crimes to the press. You must remain silent or you will "betray" the Church of Scientology and they will viciously attack you and they will try to destroy you. Just like the Mafia.
This is Scientology. This is exactly how L. Ron Hubbard designed it. This is exactly how David Miscavige runs it. This is "Standard Scientology", straight out of Introduction to Scientology Ethics.
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Posts
I saw your discussions with that guy. I was slightly surprised you kept it up for that long.
ReplyDeleteI occasionally feel bad for the Scientology internet trolls. I suspect they believe that the fate of this galactic sector depends on Scientology and therefore fighting the bad PR is actually a noble undertaking even when it involves hurling feces.
But then one of them does something that that topix guy and my sympathy evaporates. :)
Exactly - Bill
ReplyDeleteIt is not David Miscavige or David Mayo or the next COB after 10 years on post!
It is only LRH.
I can’t understand how Marty and the Indie don’t see it.
Re: Topix
ReplyDeleteOh, I don't care about the troll, I just love to bait them until they make a mistake like he did, then highlight it and highlight it and highlight it.
To those who don't read Topix, this Scientology troll used Amy's private, confidential, confessional material from the Church of Scientology to try to slander her.
The point was not to debate the troll, the point was to emphasize for all the lurkers that this dispicable act is what Scientology does as a standard operation. This so-called "religion" can't wait to publish parishioner's private confessional information in newspapers!
In the public's opinion, this may be the absolutely worst thing that Scientology does. So I made a very big deal about it. Yeah, it might have gone on too long, but I do love to see the Church of Scientology try to publicly defend their sick behavior.
I'm afraid the Church of Scientology hates me.
R I C O
ReplyDeleteBill!
ReplyDeleteWhere can we find this discussion?!
I wanna see the troll!
Sheepherder
What the troll does is pretty disgusting, you have been warned, but here it is.
ReplyDeleteJust Bill,
ReplyDeleteThanks for this write up! I finally understand Scientology "Justice".
Scientology's "attack the victim, protect the criminal" justice system never made any sense at all to me. Now I completely get it. I thought it was some strange, but pervasive, aberration. Now I understand it's pure Hubbard all the way.
No wonder every Scientology org does it.
I almost think that the CoS has given up on PR and that the only thing they really care about with their public actions is intimidating current membership.
ReplyDeleteThis explains both the leaking of PC folder data and things like the Squirrel Busters, both of which the general public finds abhorrent but may scare someone on the inside who is thinking of leaving.
OK, Bill, if that was you facing off with 'Marcotai" you' re right, it is pretty disgusting.
ReplyDeleteBy the way, did Skinner keep his child shut up in a maze? Did Pavlov drill holes in children's cheeks? Anybody know?
I was particularly struck by the troll's claims that Skinner and others thought of humans as animals who could be trained any way the trainer wished. Because, oddly enough, that is exactly the impression I get about LRH's attitude to his fellow beings, especially children. He was as much a prisoner of his time as anyone, and seemed to ascribe to the 'tabula rasa' theory of child development, which has been proven false.
Fascinating how scilons are always screaming about religious oppression, when they don't have a religion ( unless you count "three cheers for Ron" as worship), and aren't being oppressed.
Sheepherder
What the Charch dose to pull in those whom betrayed Scientology???
ReplyDeleteJust Bill - you waist so much enrgy on that troll.
Anonymous @ 08/29/11 9:51AM
ReplyDeleteThe stuff about Skinner keeping his child in a box is an old urban legend.
Re: Wasting time on a troll.
ReplyDeleteWell, it depends on how you look at it. Playing with a troll amuses me. I understand how my cats feel when they play with some critter before dispatching it. It's a hobby of little significance which sometimes gives me ideas.
Re: Wasting time on a troll
ReplyDeleteOK, so I was being a bit flippant there. I actually have many good reasons for continuing to waste time with a troll.
+ Trolls want to create flame wars that make threads unreadable and I can usually keep that from happening.
+ Trolls want to distract a thread from the main points and get the thread bogged down in minutia. I can keep going back to the point they hope to avoid.
+ I, and other Topix regulars, like to keep pointing out to lurkers what is wrong with the Troll's comments and arguments.
+ The longer you keep a troll talking, the crazier they become, they make mistakes and destroy Scientology's image.
+ Since I know that OSA reads every word and the troll does too, I have the hope that some Scientologist in that line of readers will read what we write and wake up. It could happen.
Anyway, I don't think it's a waste of time at all.
Just Bill
ReplyDeleteI said you wasted enrgy not time.
you are doing good job whit your time helping us.
What about just ignor them and not give them a platform for thier stupidity?
P.S - The troll wasting his time!see what he is doing insted of achiving "his maim goal" in Scientoloy
ReplyDeleteI appreciate your commenting with the troll, Bill. I experienced, and still do, so much growth "through the morass of coming away from the cult" by reading comments back and forth on blogs, news sites, Facebook. There is value. The ripples continue outward. Thanks.
ReplyDeleteJust Bill,
ReplyDeleteRe good reasons for wasting time with a troll: As I tried to read through that long thread on Topix, your posts were easy to read, made total sense, and kept bringing the "conversation" back to topic, kept it grounded. Troll's sounded like thoughts of a stark raving mad, delirious, possibly drug induced lunatic. I'm talking seriously deranged. Sure would open the eyes of someone IN scio, and make someone with interest think better of it. What long winded nonsensical posts, it was down right funny. Think he lost his audience, and think you held yours. You probably helped at LEAST one person out, as you did me when I was ready to see.
Hey Bill,
ReplyDeleteJust curious: does the troll really believe what he's saying? Is he making it up, or given a script? Does he honestly think that nobody is going to check out his statements? ( I mean, the Skinner Box/ baby crib thing for instance. all I had to do was look on Wikipedia.)
This is serious crazy sauce. No wonder they want to do away with psychiatry - that poor person sounds certifiable.
sheepherder
I understand very well the desire to pry unwitting confessions from Scientology defenders as they set out to derail topics, distract from Scientology's documented abuses and generally waste time. I must confess that I've spent more time than I probably should have sparring with Scientology defender "vaLLarrr" on YouTube.
ReplyDeleteAs long as one understands that the Scientologist debater is going to take refuge in logical fallacies, sophomoric ad hominem attacks, and purposeful obtuseness to avoid "confronting" actual evidence of all that is wrong with Scientology and its history, one can gain some amusement and the occasional glimpse into an actual thought process that has been warped by Scientology's indoctrination.
The key is knowing when to just walk away so as not to allow the Scientologist to waste too much of your time. After all, the Scientologist believes that s/he has "won" the debate if you keep arguing (ie: your "buttons are flattened"), or if you stop arguing (ie: you've been "shuddered into silence").
@NarkAnon
ReplyDeleteThe key to playing with Scientology trolls is to use them to make your points -- and not care one tiny bit about what the troll thinks. Scientology trolls will quit when OSA tells them their "amends project" is complete, no sooner, no later.
Scientology Betrayal...
ReplyDeleteChurch of Scientology faces backpay bill to former members
Renee Viellaris from: Sunday Herald Sun August 28, 2011 12:00AM
http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/mor...-1226123609542
"IN a move that could send its Australian arm bankrupt, the controversial Church of Scientology may be forced to pay millions in backpay to former members.
The nation's workplace watchdog has received confidential statements from several former Scientology workers who claim they were underpaid, or not paid, for at least a decade.
It is understood some alleged victims told the Fair Work Ombudsman that they were paid only $2 a week for close to full-time work, and had to rely on welfare.
The Sunday Herald Sun has learnt the Ombudsman will soon release its findings after an 18-month probe.
In a statement it said: "The Fair Work Ombudsman recently provided a draft copy of its initial finding to the relevant parties for feedback and is currently considering those responses".
Laws prevent parties from discussing the contents of interim reports.
Insiders said the church had failed to pay core staff - the equivalent of paid staff in other religious organisations - for such a long time that any order for backpay could bankrupt the organisation, or it would need to be bailed out by its US arm"
Scientologh Betrayal....
ReplyDeleteThe Story of my Bridge to OT VII
"I'm not angry anymore, as more and more people rediscover their true selves through Scientology, together we WILL achieve a world without war, crime, and insanity." Rex Fowler, OTVII, before shooting his ex-partner three times in the head and then himself.
Scientology Betrayal...
ReplyDelete"I thought my loyalty was freely given; I wept decades later when I realized it had been stolen.
Yeah, and where is Shelly Miscavige??"
A brilliant expose of Ethics and handling of SPs.
ReplyDeleteIt is becoming clearer to me that the doctrine of the Suppressive Person is the root of many if not all evils.
It is easy to get the impression that disconnection is sort of a low priority sort of thing. The Second Declaration of Lance Marcor in the Kyle Brennan wrongful death suit is an eye-opener.
He points out that all sorts of bureaucratic processes and paperwork get triggered when a PTS situation is discovered.
His intimate knowledge of the bureaucracy allowed him to demonstrate that FLAG has deliberately withheld dox from the court regarding Kyle Brennan's death or created forged dox, and that there is plenty of documentation within FLAG because the procedures demand that there be.
It is sobering to think that Rex Fowler handled his PTS with Tom Ciancio with R2-45 tech. Tom Brennan and Denise Miscavige either drove Kyle Brennan to commit suicide or also used R2-45 tech.
Marcor's declaration:
http://tinyurl.com/MarcorDeclaration
@Sheepherder
ReplyDeleteYou asked: "Just curious: does the troll really believe what he's saying? Is he making it up, or given a script? Does he honestly think that nobody is going to check out his statements?"
He has to believe what he is saying. If he doesn't, he will be declared and will be "condemned forever in this trap".
Yes, he is given briefing sheets from OSA with all this information. He then "makes it his own" without deviating too far from the OSA script.
Yes, it is easy to check his statements and disprove them all, but he can't. He has been told by the "church" that all their facts are true and everything else is false. He cannot look or he will "lose his eternity".
No matter what is in the OSA briefing sheets, he must accept that as the only information he can ever know.
Dmian,
ReplyDelete"It is sobering to think that Rex Fowler handled his PTS with Tom Ciancio with R2-45 tech"
an OTVII should be PTS or cuse over mest?
What the Regs/LRH promess when they sale the OT levels?
"The LRH articles reinforced the sense of wonder. Hubbard told us that we could become a super-being: “A thetan who is completely rehabilitated and can do everything a thetan should do, such as move MEST and control others from a distance, or create his own universe; a person who is able to create his own universe or, living in the MEST universe is able to create illusions perceivable by others at will, to handle MEST universe objects without mechanical means and to have and feel no need of bodies or even the MEST universe to keep himself and his friends interested in existence.” (Scientology 8-8008)
ReplyDeleteGood article. Many exs, myself included, have to had to watch out that they don't apply these double standards to life outside of scientology once they leave. Old habits are hard to break but it gets easier every day for exs
ReplyDelete