The Creed of the Church of Scientology says, in part:
We of the Church believe:The Church of Scientology strongly supports the Universal Declaration of Human Rights, which was adopted by the United Nations General Assembly on December 10, 1948.
...
That all men have inalienable rights to think freely, to talk freely, to write freely their own opinions and to counter or utter or write upon the opinions of others;
The Declaration says, in part:
Article 19.Scientologists, naturally, agree with the Church of Scientology in its support of this Declaration and the principle of Freedom of Speech.
Everyone has the right to freedom of opinion and expression; this right includes freedom to hold opinions without interference and to seek, receive and impart information and ideas through any media and regardless of frontiers.
Hubbard often made quite critical remarks about other religions. He had a very low opinion of most religions and was not shy about expressing this. Many members of those religions have been extremely insulted by Hubbard's comments, but it cannot be denied that it was his right to have those opinions and to express them.
Anyone who supports Freedom of Speech would agree that people should not be punished for having and expressing opinions, whatever they are. Even if those opinions do not agree with the Church of Scientology. Even if those opinions are critical of Scientology.
Is this not reasonable and proper?
Is this not Freedom of Speech?
Is this not what the Church of Scientology and all Scientologists say, in no uncertain terms, that they believe?
So, why does the Church of Scientology declare everyone who dares to criticize the church an "enemy" of the church, a "suppressive person" who may be "lied to, tricked, injured, or destroyed."
Why does the Church of Scientology carry out a systematic plan to silence and, ultimately, destroy its critics? Why does it secretly try to frame its critics for crimes they did not commit? Why does it work hard to sue them to bankruptcy on questionable grounds? Why is the church's biggest expenditure, by far, for lawyers and private investigators--who are assigned the job of tracking down and silencing critics?
The church's Creed "to think freely, to talk freely, to write freely" is equivalent to the Declaration's "without interference". And that concept is exactly the opposite of what the church does. The Church of Scientology seriously interferes with these freedoms as a matter of policy!
No, the Church of Scientology does not support Freedom of Speech. The Church of Scientology attacks Freedom of Speech every single day!
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I love how this anony-scilon keeps copy-and-pasting the same URL in every one of your posts.
ReplyDeleteOkay, Mr. Shill. Here's:
"An interesting court document in one case against the church."
http://www.whyaretheydead.net/lisa_mcpherson/legal/oddomtsor030112.html
That's very interesting. So what happens is they have this freedom of speech only to a point? And if they go to attack the church, this freedom is basically taken away from them? Do I have it right?
ReplyDeleteThe Church of Scientology has worked very, very had over its history to suppress all criticism of L. Ron Hubbard, Scientology and the Church of Scientology -- using both legal and very illegal means -- all the while hypocritically saying they are proponents of free speech.
DeleteLike many things involving the Church of Scientology, what they say is the exact opposite of what they do.
To know the truth about Scientology, you must ignore what they say, what they claim and what they promise and only look at what they do. There lies the truth.
Carl782 here.
ReplyDeleteI see a lot of critism on this 'religion.' especially on actor Tom Cruise. From what I know about this 'religion,' is that they believe we are spirits trapped inside of human bodies, and we have to replenish ourselves to almost allow our true beings to be free. So by fallowing paths and ways of life, we can improve our minds and spirits.
Now I'm not sure how actuate I am, but I want to learn more on this subject. Scientology sort of "caught me," in curiosity and what I can't figure out, (after all my google searches...) is what makes this 'religion' so bad. Isn't it basically a "mission" to become a better person, or is there something that I've missed?
I think you need to brush up on your Google skills. The exposés and first person stories about what is wrong with the Church of Scientology are legion.
DeleteYou should not look at what the Church of Scientology says it does but what it actually does.
See the "More Info" over to the left? Check out those links.
Scientology promises to "make people more able" but what it does is charge a ton of money and not change people very much at all. Every single "gain" and "ability" promised by Scientology does not happen. I have communicated with hundreds of people who have done Scientology -- even up to the highest levels -- and they all admit that they never got the promised gains. I certainly didn't.
Certainly most of them "felt better" or "became happier" while Scientologists, but people "feel better" and "become happier" all the time while participating in all sorts of activities. The key point is that Scientology does not deliver what they promise.
So, if you are gullible and believe what the church promises, and if you don't check to see if those promises are true, then you are a prime candidate to become a Scientologist. Bring lots of money and lower your expectations.
If, however, you want to actually improve yourself, keep looking. Scientology doesn't deliver any of the "miraculous" gains that it promises.
Go and look for yourself. Check out the links to the left. Really use Google.
Bill
Carl 978 here.
ReplyDeleteBasically what I meant in my previous message, was what harm does Scientology do to people today?
You need to look. The Church of Scientology does more harm today than any earlier time in its history because it demands much more and delivers much less. Google "Scientology lies", "Scientology abuses", "Scientology crimes", "Scientology Int Base", and similar. Bad things are happening right now as you read this.
DeleteCarl 978 here.
ReplyDeleteThanks for the ideas. I can really see now what you mean. But I like to learn. I'm not going to become a scientologist, I'm just the type of person who likes to learn about what's out there.
There's still something that puzzles me. Why does this 'religion' change a person into a more "controling person?"
Nothing wrong with learning. If you want to know more about Scientology from Scientology, get a book from the library if they have any. Or maybe a used book store. Do not buy one from the Church of Scientology because they will hound you forever.
DeleteScientology changes a person to be more "controlling" because that's what they teach. All the basic "communication" courses teach one how to control others to get answers or obedience. Of course, that isn't "communication" and that isn't the way to make friends or live a happy life.
Carl 978 here.
ReplyDeleteFrom your own standpoint, do you think that there is even a shimmer of good in Scientology?
In my opinion, there is a small amount of good in Scientology. Scientologists, as a rule, are good people. Scientology, as a belief system, has some good parts. When a Scientologist defends Scientology, they will remember and will reference the good that they experienced.
DeleteIf Scientology only practiced the good, workable parts of its "tech", and if it only promised the results that it could and did produce and if it wasn't so greedy, then Scientology would be fine.
The problem with Scientology isn't the bit of good that it can accomplish, the problem is how much bad you have to accept to experience that bit of good.
Unfortunately, all this is built into the very foundation of Scientology. You must accept all of it, the good and the bad, the lies, the betrayals, the greed -- all of it. It's a package deal.
Because it is a package deal, one's only sane choice is to reject it all.
Carl 978 here.
ReplyDeleteI thank you very much for the helpful answers you've provided me with, and I hope if I'm ever frozen without reasonable answers, I can come here for them, thanks!
Why is it exactly that scientologists do not like other people talking about their human rights or freedom of speech?
ReplyDeleteThat isn't quite the correct question. I don't think Scientologists have any objections to people speaking about Human Rights or Freedom of Speech. That isn't what's going on.
DeleteWhat Scientologists and the Church of Scientology do object to, and work very, very hard to suppress, is people exposing information about Scientology or L. Ron Hubbard that they don't want exposed. Scientology and Hubbard's lies, abuses, crimes and fraud are "secrets" that Scientology does not want exposed.
In addition, the Church of Scientology has been violating peoples' basic Human Rights for many many years. They love to talk about Human Rights, but really get mad if their vicious Human Rights abuses get exposed.
"Human Rights?" "Freedom of Speech?" The Church of Scientology will talk all day about those subjects, just don't look to closely at their abysmal record in this regard.
Bill
When you look around on the Internet and YouTube, you see negative stuff being always said about Scientology. But what ever happens about the catholic past? NOTHING. Did you know that when settlers were first coming to Canada, they brought their priests, some catholic. They took the native children who originally had lived peacefully on their land, forced them to speak a different language, made them forget about their culture, forced them to change their religion and way of life, and so on. So catholics are not so perfect. But I'm not going to judge a group of people just because a few bad people decided to do some bad stuff. So why is it people today judge a whole group of scientologists, just because some of them decided to take advantage of it. Is it not unfair? Where is the respect toward Scientology in people today and for the future??
ReplyDeleteOnce again, this same red herring. "Look over there! That's worse! Look over there!"
DeleteThe crimes and abuse of some entirely different group does not absolve the Church of Scientology of its crimes and abuse.
If someone burns down your house, does it make it OK as long as they point to someone else who burned down three houses?
The Church of Scientology continues to this very day to commit horrible crimes, abuse and fraud. You can point your little red herring fingers all over the place but that doesn't change the facts that the Church of Scientology continues to this very day to commit horrible crimes, abuse and fraud.
I notice you also try to conflate the Church of Scientology with "Scientology" the belief system, so you can protest the "lack of respect". Those two things are entirely different.
The Church of Scientology is a criminal organization led by a sociopathic dictator that has seriously harmed many, many people.
Scientology is just a belief system that no one much cares about.
Get your facts straight or troll somewhere else.
Bill
I am not here to pick a fight with you, and I did not mean anything I said to become an offense or annoyance. I simply feel your opinion has meaning, and I liked to ask you those questions to see what other people think on the other side of the coin.
ReplyDeleteI apologize if my reaction was a bit strong. The Church of Scientology uses that exact tactic (among others) to attempt to divert attention from their crimes and abuses -- I reacted as I did because of that.
DeleteThanks for participating in our debates here, I do appreciate it.
Bill
Do you personally believe that this religion will be here to stay for a long time, or will it die out and bring its fallowers with it?
ReplyDeleteRe: Will Scientology be around?
DeleteIt all depends on what you are talking about. Will the "Church of Scientology" be around for a long time? I don't think so. David Miscavige, the leader, has not only destroyed the organizational structure and has given the church a very bad name, but he also has all the church's millions under his direct control. He has committed many, many crimes. At some point, I expect him to run, taking the church's millions with him.
If that doesn't happen, the church may survive a bit longer, but there really isn't anything left, organizationally. It really can't recover from Miscavige. Ten years? Twenty? Maybe that long.
However, people who believe in some form of Scientology will keep the belief system of Scientology going for a long, long time. It will splinter and change and some parts absorbed in other systems. Who knows how long that will go on?
Anything useful will, one hopes, be preserved.
Anyway, that's what I think is going to happen.
How does one decide which piece of Scientology to apply and who's side to take when someone is considered an enemy of the church of Scientology (perhaps to get investigation)?
ReplyDeleteFor some, bits of Hubbard's "tech" does provide some benefit. It isn't much but if you've tried something and you get some benefit from it - use that. If someone requires you do pay money or believe things you really don't agree with, then skip it.
DeleteThere is nothing so beneficial in Scientology that you couldn't just skip the whole thing.
As for taking sides, use your head and your heart. No one needs to bow to the dictates of Scientology. Scientology does not have the power to dictate to you. My advice is: Don't take sides. Talk to everyone. Listen to everyone. Be as nice as you can to people.
Do not cut communication with someone because Scientology "requires" it. Do not let Scientology tell you what you should think and what you should do.
If Scientology "comes after you", just smile and ignore it. They are all "sound and fury, signifying nothing". They need you, you don't need them.