Because of various problems with Blogger, I've copied everything as of November 26, 2012 over to WordPress. The new location is Ask the Scientologist. I am not deleting this blog and will still accept comments and answer questions here too, but any new articles will appear at the WordPress location. I apologize if this causes any problems.

Tuesday, December 2, 2008

Scientology Trolls Again

I wrote about the rather annoying and self-embarrassing Scientology Trolls before, but there is something else I've noticed that I don't think has been discussed much.

I think that many posters don't understand what is going on when Scientology trolls appear in a discussion. They think that we're all discussing Scientology; we're debating Scientology; we're going back and forth about Miscavige's Church of Scientology's lies, crimes, abuses and fraud. Critics of Scientology are working to expose and document these things and the Scientology trolls (they think) are defending, explaining and arguing about that.

Nope. Couldn't be further from the truth.

Oh, yes, the critics certainly are working to expose and document the Church of Scientology's lies, crimes, abuses and fraud, but the Scientology trolls are not arguing about that. Take a look. The Scientology troll's posts ignore and avoid those subjects.

The Scientology troll's only job is to distract, derail, "enturbulate" and bury any thread that mentions anything negative about Scientology. That is all.

And they do exactly that.

Time and again I've seen a thread about one or more of David Miscavige's lies, crimes, abuses and fraud get sidetracked by a Scientology troll. When that happens, the troll has succeeded in their job.

You might think that the troll would be concerned that they inevitably give Scientology and all Scientologists a bad image by their insults, crazy statements, false accusations and general stupidity, but (this is important) they don't care!

You see, their job, which they get "stat" points for, is to distract, derail, "enturbulate" and bury threads about Scientology's lies, crimes abuses and fraud. If they look like complete idiots, but accomplish that goal, they "win". Their "stats are up!"

They are playing a different game. They are not arguing about Scientology. They will never argue about Scientology. They won't justify their statements. They won't explain or defend Scientology's actions. They never will answer questions about Scientology.

Their false accusations are ironic. It is ironic because Hubbard said that criminals will accuse others of doing what the criminal is, in fact, doing. The Scientology trolls will inevitably accuse everyone of what Scientology is guilty of: Bigotry, intolerance, lying, making up stuff, hate speech, hate crimes and running intelligence operations against their enemies. Ron said they'd do it and the criminal Church of Scientology does it.

If posters react to the troll's false accusations, the troll "wins". If posters react to the troll's insults, the troll "wins". If posters argue about wild statements the troll made, the troll "wins". When posters go away from the subject of Miscavige's and his church's lies, crimes, abuses and fraud -- they are then wrangling about subjects of the troll's choosing, and the troll "wins".

The troll does not care one bit that he makes Scientologists look stupid, paranoid, crazy, brainwashed, etc. There are no "negative points" for such things. If the thread veers off from the lies, crimes, abuses and fraud of Miscavige and his church, he "wins", he gets his little points.

Understand the real game going on. Critics of Scientology are working to expose and document these lies, crimes, abuses and fraud and Miscavige's Church of Scientology, through its trolls, is working to hide them.

They know they cannot disprove the facts. They know they have absolutely no proof of their claims. These church operatives know they have no defense against the truth. The only thing they can do is desperately try to hide their lies, crimes, abuses and fraud.

So the absolutely worst thing you can do to a Church of Scientology troll is -- ignore those attempts , ignore those insults, ignore those false accusations and go back to the subject that the troll is attempting to stop. If Miscavige and his little troll-people hate it, then it must be good, keep on it.


  1. Way to blanketly and pre-emptively smear ANY AND ALL disagreement with you!

  2. I was hoping a Scitroll would be so kind as to show us how they work. Notice:

    - Appears to completely misunderstand the whole article. Comment makes no sense. And yet...
    - Is a vague accusation of some kind of wrong-doing. And...
    - Makes the troll appear righeous. And, of course...
    - Takes the topic into a whole new direction.

    Does the troll discuss the whole basic concept of the article? No! Does the troll do anything to discuss, refute, argue with the basic concept? No!

    See how it's done?

    And that's how the troll attempts to distract, derail, "enturbulate" and bury criticism of his little Church of Scientology.

    If you know what he's doing, it doesn't work.

  3. Excellent point that is always relevant.

    Hubbard's policy for sidestepping the criticism that has ALWAYS been aimed at Hubbard and his bad ideas, Hubbard wrote policy that the movement members are stuck executing, stuck in Hubbard's ruts.

    You point will always be relevant.

    The sad truth is Hubbard's propped up system is so full of Hubbard policy rules that keep that system propped up.

    Roy Wallis' all time best ever scholarly book on Scientology touches on this problem with Scientology/Hubbard having itself set up in this way to preclude revision, and tie the followers up with the rules they cannot change and which Hubbard's rules force them to execute.

    The whole Office of Special Affairs, the outgrowth from the ashes of the old Guardian's Office, I've written about how the old Guardian's Office Orders (policy written and approved by Hubbard) were the basis for the current Office of Special Affairs network orders, a perfect example of old Guardian’s Office Hubbard "tech" that is now OSA "tech" is OSA Network Order 15, here's some choice quotes, and note this is now official church policy, and thus isn't able to be revised, and you can see from this policy example alone, the long range problem the world (and the duped Scientology OSA staffers' also) face in how to extract ourselves from Hubbard's FOUL ideas invading our civilization:

    15, 18 February 1988 Confidential BLACK PROPAGANDA (Originally written by LRH on 12 January 1972. Issued as OSA NW Order on 18 February 1988.) ... To cease to be the effect of classification and become in our turn the cause of it, the classifier, is to win the propaganda game. Our propaganda is dirty.... We do this trick by survey and attack.... we become re-classified as attackers and the enemy as bad hats as they're for the evil if they attack us... We just run propaganda campaigns....It reclassifies our attackers as evil people... we (1) Seek to avoid opportunities for the enemy to classify us. (2) Contest or expose any previous classifications as false (dead agentry, etc.) (3) Engage in a series of campaigns which confuse past classification. (4) Achieve for ourselves a dominance in classifying ourselves and others." "L. RON HUBBARD, Founder , Adopted as official Church policy by CHURCH OF SCIENTOLOGY INTERNATIONAL “

    Chuck Beatty
    ex Sea Org (1975-2003)
    my highpoint as a cult dupe staffer was my role as "training supervisor", I trained the advanced staff dupes, Sheesh!
    Pittsburgh, USA

  4. When I first used to post messages on blogs and 'comments' I was somewhat naive in allowing myself to get sidetracked. However, one learns from experience.

    Now I use the opportunity sometimes, as the troll tries to distract, by slipping in information relevant to the distraction but I am thinking of other readers not the troll.
    The troll cannot win either way whatever 'wins' it imagines it has acheived. Perhaps they don't quite understand that what YOU write can be read more than once, clearly and concisely written as it is, whereas THEIR clumsy attempts are skipped on any subsequent viewing. They are quite frankly boring and repetitive and we learn not to respond.

    What they do is also counter-productive. I've witnessed clever trolls posting on newspaper articles or celebrity sites and completely succeeding in distracting from the thread, or giving contradictory information, which I could not myself refute there and then. In my case it has simply given me the energy to research further, because I know that scientologists are trained to lie, therefore I never give them the benefit of the doubt -ever. I would urge others to do likewise.

    What interests me is the style of their way of twisting the truth, so scientology trolling has assisted me in understanding what they are doing. I have become sharper as a result.

    So : in a Just Bill 'clam'shell,
    "The Scientology troll's only job is to distract, derail, "enturbulate" and bury any thread that mentions anything negative about Scientology. That is all."

    It is in analyse a devious, reprehensible, irresponsible obnoxious way of wasting time.

  5. I know we shouldn't play with the nasty trolls. It is amazing the childish and repulsive insults they can come up with whenever someone makes a point they can't allow to stand. Dreadful lastwordsmanship is also a characteristic. I sometimes wonder if they just really enjoy seeing their "name" on the board. Maybe they get extra points! It would explain so much.

  6. Thanks guys!

    These Sci-trolls are, indeed, locked into that bad behavior by Hubbard's dictates. It isn't sane, it isn't doing the church any good, but they must continue.

    But as for their actions being "a devious, reprehensible, irresponsible obnoxious way of wasting time" and their posts containing "childish and repulsive insults", these things are related to the "Scientology attitude".

    The "Scientology attitude" is absolutely disgusting. There is undoubtedly another Ask the Scientologist article there. They are told that they are "superior beings" and they are "saving the universe" and so, of course, everyone else is scum and anything they do to this "scum" is acceptable. So many Scientologists, especially the Sci-trolls, act in morally reprehensible and socially unacceptable ways. It's built into their belief system.

  7. Interesting. A pro-Scientologist's job (note: your personal opinion may differ, but party line is party line, and a job is the result of an upper order) is to inflict further enturbulation on the world.

    To those in above-classified group that are reading this, I hope you see, even for a moment, the paradox this surmounts to the claim of The Most Ethical.

    Why play "our" game ("our" defined as the SPs, or at least PTS) when you could simply be At Cause?

    How can a measly 2.5% bring down so many upstat individuals?

  8. Ooh, I also forgot previously to mention a couple of things as to how I personally feel.

    I personally feel bad for people who, in my opinion, are trapped by their conviction (faith versus reason.) I feel bad that people are led astray so DM can have his paycheck, custom suits, swanky living quarters, and scotch (although, damn, scotch sounds good right now.)

    This is why I'm here. I'm here to allow those who want to be helped a little help, and to point out issues, that if taken at face value, you're allowed to disagree with. I am OK with learning, but I do have standards of learning (such as evidence.)

    I do not wish to name-call, not even if I feel that Scn is a cult. Calling a Scn-member a "cultie" will not help you understand my position.

    Agreed, a very small percentage of people who are allowed to read comments such as mine are willing to consider a dissenting viewpoint, but if there's even a single one, this has been worth my every moment of effort.

    I do not wish to alienate; you may not like what I have to say, but as a group that enjoys the first amendment to the Constitution and the UN declaration of human rights, I'd find it hard to accuse me of anything that you yourself do not enjoy:
    Freedom of speech
    Freedom of religion
    Freedom to change your mind (the "apostate" clause)
    Freedom to care about other human beings.

    Again, you are free to disagree - I'll not hold it against you. You are not free to accuse me by proxy of some un-nameable "crime" of suppression, when the same set of human rights cover your ability to accuse me of such.

  9. Interestingly, since Anonymous came on the scene and began effectively countering infamous Scientology trolls/shills like "Louanne" and "Terryeo"... they've drastically reduced their activity.

    They've also shifted to limiting their PR puff pieces to sites that allow them to publish but do not allow comments.

    This is just an assumption on my part, but I'm guessing that they've seen that Anons won't let a troll derail a discussion -- and that Anons counter them with copious links to damaging information about Scientology.

    You can't troll a troll... and Anons are some of the best trolls on the Internet.

  10. While agreeing with you, I must admit it's hard not to fight back. I am sure you've seen some of my rants at the trolls on Topix, but I do try my best to get back on point. All I can add is: Keep teaching us, oh master, and we shall continue to learn! Bless you, Bill...

  11. Thanks Mad Dog, but I'm learning too.

    The trolls on Topix have been great teachers on how to deal with the kind of BS they pull. Without that experience, I'd never have been able to handle it on Ask the Scientologist.

    However, it is fun to play with trolls. My idea on Topix is, when the thread is not very important, let's play! But, when the thread is an important Scientology-Hubbard-Miscavige debunking/exposure, let's keep bringing the thread back on point. It makes the trolls so mad.

    But that's just me.

  12. Scientologists are actually banned from researching their own religion online. Any information they happen to come across which is considered to be information at a higher 'tier', is supposedly so powerful that just reading it can kill them. Every time they post on threads trolling, they're actually doing exactly what they're banned from doing.

  13. @hovis-j

    You don't think the Scientology trolls actually read the articles, do you? You can tell from their comments that: 1) They haven't read the article, 2) They never follow any links to critical sites, 3) They have never read any critical sites. Which is why they sound so ignorant.

    These Scientologists are assigned these duties by the Church of Scientology as penance for "bad behavior". They are "making amends" for their transgressions and "striking a blow to the enemies" of the church. They are not there because they want to be there. It is a horrible, dangerous task they have been forced to do because they have gotten into deep trouble.

  14. Oh, and by the way, the only Scientologists who are assigned "troll duty" are those who are OT III -- so they are immune to the killer effects of the secret data.


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