Because of various problems with Blogger, I've copied everything as of November 26, 2012 over to WordPress. The new location is Ask the Scientologist. I am not deleting this blog and will still accept comments and answer questions here too, but any new articles will appear at the WordPress location. I apologize if this causes any problems.

Sunday, October 17, 2010

Message to Nation of Islam Members About Scientology

This post is applicable to anyone who is looking into Dianetics or Scientology.
You are being asked to participate in Dianetics/Scientology services from the Church of Scientology.

That's fine, nothing wrong with that if that's your choice.

But you need to be very, very careful.  You are being asked to believe quite a number of things without proof, and there is no reason for you to accept this situation.  You should ask for, and should receive, valid proof before you give the Church of Scientology any of your money.

You may have read Dianetics: The Modern Science of Mental Health.  You may have read or heard about L. Ron Hubbard's description of "Clear":
A clear, for instance, has complete recall of everything which has ever happened to him or anything he has ever studied. He does mental computations, such as those of chess, for example, which a normal would do in a half an hour, in ten or fifteen seconds. He does not think “vocally” but spontaneously. There are no demon circuits in his mind except those which it might amuse him to set up -- and break down again -- to care for various approaches to living. He is entirely self-determined. And his creative imagination is high. He can do a swift study of anything within his intellectual capacity, which is inherent, and the study would be the equivalent to him of a year or two of training when he was “normal.” His vigor, persistence and tenacity to life are very much higher than anyone has thought possible.
L. Ron Hubbard
Dianetics: The Modern Science of Mental Health
And you might think that this definition of "Clear" is what the Church of Scientology is promising when they say they are "producing Clears".

Nothing could be farther from the truth.

I urge you to check it out for yourself.  Ask to talk to one of these Church of Scientology "Clears".  Find out what their "complete recall of everything which has ever happened to him or anything he has ever studied" is like in reality.  Can they tell you the name of their second grade teacher?  Can they quote, verbatim, from a book they read last year?

Can this "Clear" do "mental computations, such as those of chess, for example, which a normal would do in a half an hour, in ten or fifteen seconds"?

Check it out for yourself before you give the Church of Scientology any of your hard-earned money.

If you look, I am sure you will find what many ex-Scientologists already know, that not one Church of Scientology "Clear" has the abilities and powers that L. Ron Hubbard promised.  In fact, you will discover that Scientology "Clears" have no special abilities or powers at all.

Look for yourself.

If you participate in any Church of Scientology "auditing" you may experience, as many have, a temporary feeling of euphoria at the end of the session.  No one knows why this happens, but it is always and only temporary and does not indicate any permanent "gains".

Check it out for yourself.  Talk to "Clears" and "OTs".  Don't ask them about Scientology, because they will just give you the standard sales spiel.  Ask them what they do for a living.   Are they "industry leaders"?  Are they successful?  Are they still allowed to talk with their family?  Ask them difficult questions.  Press them to answer instead of evade.

Go to the Internet and search for "Scientology".  No legitimate organization would forbid such an investigation.  The Church of Scientology will tell you that "everything you read on the Internet is a lie" but they will never, ever provide any proof of that.  They want you to trust them on this, but they don't trust you to make up your own mind.  The Church of Scientology will tell you there is a Great Anti-Scientology Conspiracy but they will never provide any proof of that either.

In fact, if you want to really upset a Scientologist, ask for proof of anything they claim -- they won't have any proof at all, but they will get very upset when you ask.  If that doesn't ring any alarm bells for you, then nothing will.

I am not saying that Scientology does nothing.  For some people, it certainly may help -- but it never, ever delivers on any of its big, miraculous promises.

Do what you want, believe what you want, but look for yourself and get actual proof before you give the Church of Scientology any of your money.


  1. Exactly. There is no peer-reviewed scientific evidence validating Hubbard's claims about Clear. Hubbard provided no such proof, and no one has successfully provided independent scientific studies proving Hubbard's claims. Hell, the drug companies have to prove their psych drugs are efficacious before they can be sold. Ironic that Hubbard - who utterly despised psychiatry (er - I mean the competition) never held himself to the same scientific standard. For me, this was the biggest betrayal of Hubbard - promising these Clear abilities (which ANYONE would want) in order to suck you in, and then somehow getting you to forget that is why you walked in the front door in the first place. Next thing you know, 30 years of your life has gone down the goddam drain.

  2. It is said that to have a hero is to diminish oneself. but this does not take into account the inspiration which a hero gives to inspire oneself to take up the reins in co-ordination with their efforts. We share the struggle and we take over the task when our heroes weaken or fall -they will then be encouraged by us.

    My first hero in the subject scientology was Bob Minton, there appeared many others. To all of them I am grateful -for their insights and their courage. In the subject Islam I am indebted in the same way to Ali Sina, Wafa Sultan, Ibn Warraq, Ayaan Hirsi Ali, Walid Shoebat -all apostates and under sentence of death through the dictates of Shariah law. Those who eloquently warn of the dangers of a totalitarian thought system (masquerading as a religion and begun by a degenerate character with evil designs): Robert Spencer, Raymond Ibrahim, Christopher Hitchens, Pamela Geller, Madeleine Barkingate, Geerd Wilders to name but a few -and hopefully the future president of the United States: Lt Col Allen West - are also heroes of mine.

    Regarding this site, I must say that the integrity of it's composers have been instrumental in accumulating my wealth of information and understanding vis a vis totalitarian thought systems; the ins and outs as it were; the mundane elements; the day to day nonsense; the mucking about with truth, half-truths and lies. To know the nature of one is to be able to recognise all. They are all motivated and can be identified by the same things: greed, hate and delusion.

  3. Bravo Just Bill! So glad to see you speak up on this. Also relevant is What L. Ron Hubbard had to say about Islam, covered here for those who may not know:

  4. Excellent article Bill! Keep it up!

  5. The Church of Scientology claims that their "Hubbard Study Technology" is wildly and universally successful.

    They neglect to tell you that they have failed to get their "wonderful" study tech into any school system anywhere in the world. Oh, they got it into a number of school systems "for evaluation and testing", but the results were ... very disappointing, and the system has universally been rejected by all.

    Not so successful in the real world.

    The Church of Scientology brags about how "amazing and successful" their Administrative Technology is.

    They neglect to tell you that it has been rejected by every non-Scientology company it was tested in -- because it caused tremendous problems and severely damaged parts of those companies.

    They neglect to tell you that there is no successful, large company using their Admin Tech. Isn't the tech supposed to magically make companies large and successful? In over 50 years, that hasn't happened.

    Not so successful in the real world.

    The Church of Scientology makes huge claims about how wonderful everything they have is -- but they have no proof.

    Not only have they no proof, the actual evidence and the actual results in the real world prove that their claims are universally bogus.

  6. Perhaps LF already has a file and is afraid of what Co$ might expose?

  7. Again, spot on Bill. So many promises and so little gains. Better to go read a self help book for $15 bucks and spend time with your family and friends:)

  8. I don't know why Anonymous at 3:35pm on 10/17/10 decided to rip Islam on top of Scientology, but it seems to be a little off topic.

    I would say that Scientology and Islam (even the heterodox version of the faith practiced by the NOI) are less compatible that Scientology and Christianity. Scientology is all about gaining Godlike powers; Islam is about submission to God. Scientology is self-oriented; Islam is communal, with a long tradition of worring about community affairs, holiday celibrations, and the like. Scientology denies that there was a Christ; Islam treats Jesus as a prophet. I could go on, but you can see that these groups are opposed to each other philosophically. If Farrakhan is moving into Scientology, then this influence will push his group further from Sunni Islam and closer to such bizarro black sects as the Nuwaubians and the Black Hebrews of Philadelphia.

    (BTW I am not a Muslim, nor an ex-Scientologist.)

  9. Hate to say it, but I suspect you're preaching to the hopeless when it comes to NOI, Bill. Their "theology" includes black scientists that created white people and UFO's under Japanese control during WW II, and support a return to racial segregation. This stuff makes even Xenu look sane.

    -Red Pill on Topix

  10. The only "validation" of Clear that Hubbard offered was a few "before" and "after" results from IQ and personality testing in the '50's. So what if people feel a little better after telling someone about their traumas? What about the before and after studies proving ALL allergies had been "erased" in EVERYONE in an experimental group? How about the tests proving eidetic recall in ALL Clears? And on and on. Clear, as described by Hubbard in DMSMH, is an utter con job. Total rubbish.

  11. Most on here sound like a bunch of abused women, especially the one who is the Scientologist that is answering the questions. Well what are your motives for even speaking on things in which you clearly have no knowledge.

  12. @DeAnthony

    Your message is unclear. Are you trying to say that we have "no knowledge" of Scientology? That is obviously not true, since I was in Scientology for over 30 years and have many friends with similar information.

    Is your message that we have "no knowledge" of the Nation of Islam? That would be true, but I wasn't speaking about NOI, I was speaking about Scientology.

    But, as always, I welcome any corrections. If you think I have said anything that is untrue, please give me the spectifics.

  13. @DeAnthony

    That you choose to ignore Just Bill's friendly warning is a sad thing, but your choice.

    That you try to insult Bill and everyone here as "sounding like a bunch of abused women" is quite revealing, perhaps more than you intended.

    Abused women have an vital message to impart about their abuser and the culture that condones abuse. The fact that, to you, such messages are to be discarded and ignored tells much about you and your culture - none of it good.

  14. @DeAnthony

    There are many, many more people who have escaped from Scientology than there are currently in Scientology -- even counting the conscripted NOI members.

    Every single ex-Scientologist will admit that they never got any of the promised gains from Scientology. No one got the promised gains exactly as Just Bill says.

    Now, who "clearly has no knowledge" of Scientology? (Hint: That would be you)

  15. Dear Anonymous Scientologist/NOI member,

    Thanks for your comment. I really appreciate hearing from you.

    You should not assume things that you know nothing about. What we are doing in other areas is something you don't know. Why do you assume that we do nothing to help others? Hmmm?

    You assume that because someone else told you what to think. You did not investigate, you did not think for yourself. You followed orders.

    That led you to make accusations that are completely false. Shame on you.

    We are not attacking you. If you want to believe that Scientology is useful, helpful and "workable", no one is stopping you. Get it? Go ahead.

    I welcome disagreement here. You may disagree with anything I, or anyone else, says. Please let me know your views.

    But -- if all you do is spew hate and false accusations, then you are not welcome. We do not talk hate here. We do not throw out false accusations here. That's Scientology's method of "defense" and it is just wrong.

    Think about it. If you wish to discuss Scientology in a civilized manner, then please join the conversation. If you can't be civilized, that's something more for you to think about.

  16. Do we agree, The best way to learn something is to experience it yourself...........with that said. Until you have experienced it yourself, do not base your comments off of another mans opinion...Now, lets try something more intelligent. Call the center and take the Personal Efficiency Course and get a free auditing session.

    Then, come back and post a comment. Here is the number to call to actually EXPERIENCE Dianetics or Scientology for yourself XXX-XXX-XXXX Ext. XXXX.

    1. Gee FemWisdom, how gullible do you think people are? I don't have to bang my head against the wall to learn that's not a good idea. I don't have to experience being lied to and defrauded to learn that is not going to be a good experience

      What I'm suggesting is a bit safer than starting Scientology mind-control programming. Ask Scientologists for proof of anything they claim.

      The miracles of "Clear"? Ask for proof.
      The amazing abilities of "OT"? Ask for proof.
      Dianetics cures most diseases, increases IQ, etc? Ask for proof.

      And when you ask for proof and Scientologists refuse to give it to you and insist you have to "try" their cult thought-control techniques for yourself -- run, run away!

      Heck, if someone showed me actual proof of Scientology's claims for "Release", "Clear" and "OT", I'd be first in line to go back. But, of course, they can't and won't. Their claims are completely false.

      Don't fall for their bogus claims. Ask for proof.

      (And, no, FemWisdom, you don't get to advertise on Ask the Scientologist. Go advertise on your own blog.)

  17. I have seen and heard a lot about Scientology, but not anything about L. Ron Hubbard, and his racism. We need to dwell on that, and then the church. I heard this just today, if David Duke says he can save the black children, but he is the teacher, would you let him? Hell no. Why is Louis Farakahan, doing this, he is a sell out. NOI people, you better run. I have never read anywhere someone talked and degraded black people like this satanic beast. Check it out people. Scientology and Racism.

  18. Great article! I was a dedicated Scientologist (and Staff Member) for many years. I never witnessed demonstrations of a real 'Clear' or an 'OT' (even the OT 8's were supposed to be all-powerful, given that there are 15 total ot levels, yet only 8 released). The pay of Staff Members (and Sea Org members, their 'elite' militaristic type group of workers) were paid very very little (if any) per week and worked 80 to 100 hour weeks for years! (I myself worked over 80 hr weeks). There IS *some* helpful stuff within their basic courses and counselling, but that's about IT! (and you can learn that stuff cheaply online or at Missions). DO NOT BE TAKEN IN BY THEIR LOFTY CLAIMS!


Comments will be moderated. Have patience, I get around to it pretty quick. As a rule of thumb, I won't approve spam, off-topic, trolling or abusive stuff. The rest is usually OK. Yes, you can disagree with me.